FReeper Reviews of Return of the King (Spoiler FILLED)

Dec 17,2003

[Gordian Blade]

RoTK was definitely better for me the second time. I am so familiar with the books that any departure, even a small one, is a shock to see the first time. By the second time, I was used to the differences and could better appreciate it on its own merits. I think I won't see it again until the Ex DVD, which will be about 11 months or so. It's just too hard to scrape together that much time in a block.

One of these days we should try to list all the homages in the film, but right off the top: Star Wars Empire Strikes Back, Star Wars Return of the Jedi, Wagner's Gotterdammerung, Indiana Jones... It was like PJ was saying to all of them, "OK, I'll see your bet and raise it!"

[BradyLS]

Well, I've just returned from having seen The Return of the King and have decided to post my own thoughts about it. Some folks may not take the film to heart as the definitive retelling of Tolkien's story (and I certainly have my doubts), but it was still a great movie to watch and a heckuva lot of fun. In other words, I liked it a great deal, with but a few sorry misgivings-- I'll definitely be seeing it again!

What I enjoyed:

1. Sean Astin's Sam is excellent. Sam really steps forward as a memorable character in this film.

2. Bernard Hill's performance also achieves distinction. As far as the films go, The Return of the King will always refer to King Theoden for me.

3. Miranda Otto's portayal of Eowyn was also very pleasing. As movie babes go, I'd take her over the movie Arwen anytime. It's too bad her big scene with Merry suffers in a clunky edit.

4. Minas Tirith was a thrill to see realized. The effects team deserves every accolade imaginable. There were a few niggling slips but they were noticed only in the moment they occurred and then quickly forgotten.

5. The denouement was very effective. The movie could have ended in one of several places, yet I was happy that the film continued. The scene in the Green Dragon was especially gratifying for me.

6. The scenes on Mount Doom, were well handled. More than a shirt of mithril, however, I want a hide of Gollum.

7. The scenes on the Stair and in the Haunted Pass were excellent. Shelob was much better and more believable than the (one) trailer I saw led me to believe.

8. For all the catching up and tie-ing up that had to be done after Towers, the movie is surprisingly cohesive. If you don't know the story well, it's almost impossible to tell where the missing material should go.


Many of the following are holdovers fro the last movie, but they still have an impact on this movie, so I'm listing them. Things I didn't care for:

1. Several key characters and and their scenes were truncated or simply missing. Fault for this lies in Jackson's inexplicable mangling of The Two Towers, where his own inventions and lingering make its three-hour runtime drag.

2. "He was as noble and as fair in face as an elf-lord, as strong as a warrior, as wise as a wizard, as venerable as a king of dwarves and as kind as summer." Yes, it bothers me that Jackson's Elrond is nothing like Tolkien's.

3. Denethor II, the Steward of Gondor, is yet another character who undergoes baffling revision by Jackson. Just as bad, this forces Jackson to take Gandalf out of character to keep Denethor subdued.

4. Aragorn's character doesn't emerge as The King. He still acts much the same way he did in the first movie. Tolkien called him "grim at times" but Mortensen's portrayal is merely "moody" all the time. His speech before the Black Gate could have been delivered better. In his defence, he was hamstrung by a missing scene that would have given his speech some added context and impact.

5. The Battle of Pelennor Fields, while extremely cool, is simply way too long. By the time Aragorn arrives with Gimli and Legolas, it had descended into cartoon violence. I felt no punch from the great stunts and effects during their part of the battle. Helm's Deep had to be topped, however, and I saw this one coming 365 days away.

6. This is a small nit. They should never have mentioned how long it takes to get anywhere. None of the dates they toss around match up. ("You have three days to muster"; "it takes two days ride"; etc.) In every instance, characters simply show up exactly when they need to, so it hardly matters.

On the whole, I'd have to say Fellowship is the best of the three, followed closely by Return, and Towers an inexplicably distant third.

If I had to give it an Ebert-style rating, Return of the King gets a definite thumbs up and an equally high 3.5 out of four stars. (Master and Commander was a 4/4, BTW).

I should add, though, that are definitely people who do not like the movies. Mainly due to the liberties taken with the original work. In respect to The Two Towers, I share many of their complaints and it can't be helped that the problems with Towers casts some shadow over Kings. However, none of them stand as tall in this film as they do in Towers. I was able to finally accept the good that came with this film and dismiss the bad after the moment.

The Jackson epic can't replace the original in my heart, but it's nice to know that there is-- at long last-- an epic adaptation that, taken as a whole, will entertain and amaze for a good long time.

[HairOfTheDog]

Great and fair reviews/comments!

I am still waiting for view 3.... Which has always been my favorite.... View 1: Absorption/Information overload/excitement. View 2: Able to actually watch the plot. View 3: Able to look for the finer points... The details and nuances and hidden wonders! Next day or two I will be able to get back.

[BibChr]

LOL, very well put.

Oh, I thought the same thing. Among the things I wanted to say was, "You know, why don't you take this conversation outside, where it's quieter and you won't have to speak over all the noise that THIS EXQUISITE MOVIE is TRYING to make?"

That's one of the nicer things, anyway.

I'm to go again with my 17yo Matthew tonight. I am praying for a better audience, and preparing to SHOOSH! mightily.

Dan

[BibChr]

BradyLS slams and belittles ROTK in what I think are "What-were-you-THINKING?!" ways, and you say, "Great and fair reviews/comments!"

Color me bumfuzzled.

Dan

[HairOfTheDog]

I don't agree that it is as faulty as he does, but Brady and you and I argued Faramir into ashes in TTT, and I didn't wan't to start new ones about RoTK... I don't always feel like arguing, Dan! Sometimes I am just tired.

[HairOfTheDog]

You have been talking about bad crowds.... did you hear about mine? the guy that got decked? here

[JenB]

Tell me if time three is better than time two. I just got back from the second showing.

We had a marvelous, marvelous crowd. Theater was full, and no one had a cell phone, or an annoying cough, or anything. There were gasps and claps and murmured sighs at all the right places. That really adds to the enjoyment.

I enjoyed everything more this time. I tended to notice some of the nice, small details.

Denethor still bothers me. He just isn't right. Also the Eowyn plotline seemed to just be left hanging. It bothered me more this time. And I think I hate the lembas scene. It just feels wrong. I'm mad about the bit they rewrote to put that in....

But the moving scenes were more moving. Just... beautiful, Theoden's and Aragorn's pre-battle speeches. Makes me want to do something heroic.

What happened to all the horses, just before the start of the final battle? They were mounted, and then the horses vanished!

[Lil'freeper]

Denethor still bothers me. He just isn't right. Also the Eowyn plotline seemed to just be left hanging. It bothered me more this time. And I think I hate the lembas scene. It just feels wrong. I'm mad about the bit they rewrote to put that in....

I'm still dwelling on Denny- I think ultimately the decision to play him like that may have been good (see conversation this morning in the HH). Second viewing will be tomorrow. I think the Eowyn and Merry scene could have been better. They killed the Witch-King for goodness' sake... and no one noticed. This was huge! A little recognition would be nice. Perhaps Gandalf could pause and look out in the distance with a wry little smile that said the battle had turned. I'd like a little disorganization seen in the enemy, too.

[JenB]

Have started my new Christmas tradition, rereading Tolkien... starting with The Hobbit, and including Silmarillion...

[Maigret]

Then do the eagles come and get Frodo and Sam?

[BradyLS]

You love a fight, I see.

[DollyCali]

Yes they do....

[BibChr]

I don't always feel like arguing, Dan!

Stagger... stagger....

< Thud! >

Dan
(c;

[BibChr]

My third, last night, with Matthew, was far better audiencewise, until the very end. But he was ticked off with it (his first viweing) — all the babies and toddlers and young children people brought, the cell phones. And then admittedly the MTV-gen factor lost patience at the end. Nothing blowing up, why are we still here?

It's all frame of reference sometimes, isn't it? I was really pleased with the crowd, mostly, because the night before had been SO wretched. But Matt hadn't been there, and he wanted (reasonably) civility. Sorry, Matt; it isn't a very civil society. Glad you're different, thank God for that.

Dan

[BibChr]

Three times in five days is still cool, the movie still totally rocks.

Oh, I think once I got over the shock of the changes, I just pretty much enjoy the movie. At the risk of the wrath of HOTdog, who only ever argues with me < g >, I say again: my overall judgment of the movies is that they are astonishing accomplishments, and my hat is unreservedly off to Jackson for both conception and execution. And the principle actors couldn't be better. And now to the inevitable...

...BUT all that wonderful judgment just makes its failures harder to explain. Faramir at the top of the list. Denethor. "I'm going to save you"/"You already did." "Go home, Sam"/"Okey doke [ sniff ] Mr Frodo." "Oh, look! It's Arwen! I forgot all about you! Let's get married so I can die and you can mourn me for centuries!" Etc.

So you shrug it off and relish the >90% that is not just good, but PINCH-me good. Or I do, anyway.

Still, after 3 vieweings, I'm thinking my favorites order will be FOTR - ROTK - TTT. That may change, but the first has a magic that so far isn't in the third... but that is to praise the first, not in any way denigrate the third.

And it should have won Best Picture, no doubt about it.

Oh, one more thing, Jen. The third viewing had me thinking even more, "You can't tell me Gollum isn't real. They had to have found some pathetic little creature and taught it to talk."

In TTT, Gollum was a marvel, absolutely. But... well, his mouth doesn't always seem quite to match the voice, and there are times he doesn't affect the environment, and... I mean, for me, he is a hands-down astonishing special effect accomplishment.

But in ROTK, he's just there, period. The tight closeup as he is talking to himself in his sleep: perfect. 3D and THERE. The other closeup of him and Frodo, as he whispers to him — the veins in his eyes, the texture, the lighting, everything. The little touches -- licking his lips, the slight shadings of expression. I mean, TTT is an A+; this would have to be a new letter of the alphabet, or an A+++.

Dan

[BibChr]

I just don't love being singled out for one.

Dan

[HairOfTheDog]

I just can't resist an argument with you Dan... I don't feel the same way about all people. I am sure Brady finds this a blessing.

Good morning! :~D

[BibChr]

I just can't resist an argument with you Dan

Well, that's... oddly touching. In a scary way.

Dan
(c;

[JenB]

Just back from my own viewing 3. I think I agree with your whole list of points! Except Arwen showing up. I think Aragorn's expression isn't surprise, it's love and kind of this amazement that they both made it and are here and in love. It seemed almost right to me.

I am wondering a few things... minor things.... like, when Frodo's shirtless in the tower, he's got two wounds. One is the Morgul-blade wound, the other looked to me like Shelob's sting at first - but it's too high up, the mithril shirt should have stopped it.

Denethor's death scene was worse the third time because I know it's coming.... oh, darn, I have more to say but I have to go do family stuff...