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Sorry for the vanity but I want more eyes on this. THanks!
1 posted on 12/08/2003 7:13:15 PM PST by RandallFlagg
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To: RandallFlagg
Watched it. Will watch the next part tomorrow night.

I loved the old series, but I was just a kid. I recently saw an episode from the old series and couldn't believe how terrible the acting and dialogue were. That's not how I remembered it.

The new one is ok. Not perfect, but ok. I think the re-casting of Starbuck and Boomer as women has more to do with the "sexed-up" image they're going for than PC. People were coupling up like rutting weasels in the first hour.

Interesting to see how they resolve the PC president and Commander Adama's dispute. That will tell you a lot about how well the show ought to go.

117 posted on 12/08/2003 8:36:49 PM PST by Snuffington
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To: unix; Paul C. Jesup
Well, what was your verdict???
123 posted on 12/08/2003 8:43:55 PM PST by Andy from Beaverton (I only vote Republican to stop the Democrats)
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To: RandallFlagg
Just started "The Stand" man... you are satan's imp or are you satan himself??? Pacific time, and yes Starbuck has had his willy axed.
147 posted on 12/08/2003 9:10:07 PM PST by Porterville (No communist or french)
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To: Fraulein
I liked it.

I'm a little worried that the next episode is gonna go all PC on us, but I've got my fingers crossed.

150 posted on 12/08/2003 9:15:36 PM PST by mosel-saar-ruwer
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To: RandallFlagg
I'm been watching since 9 PM and it's now 12:20 AM! I'm watching it twice!

It's very well done. I remember the original with Richard Hatch, Dirk Benedict and Daddy Cartwright. The Cylons are super scary this time around. I'm impressed!

Jamie Bamber plays Apollo. In Horatio Hornblower on A&E, he played Archie, Horatio's best friend, in the first two seasons.

153 posted on 12/08/2003 9:20:38 PM PST by Ciexyz
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To: RandallFlagg
I watched it. It is actually a good bit better than I thought it would be. They took some well-advised artistic license and dumped a lot of the grotesque cheese that defined the original series. It is more like a "parallel universe" remake. As it was, I had no particular desire for them to be faithful to the original just because it is a remake, particularly considering how marginal the original was. Die hard enthusiasts of the original will probably not be pleased with the new one, but I prefer it this way.

All things considered, they did a pretty good job. My bar was set low, but I was pleasantly surprised.

163 posted on 12/08/2003 9:36:00 PM PST by tortoise (All these moments lost in time, like tears in the rain.)
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To: RandallFlagg
I am watching this thing and it moves too slow, the special effects are terrible and the acting horrible. A few months ago Edward James Olmos said not to bother watching and now I know why he said it.

Now if I am going to watch cheesy special effects but great writing and acting then lets be watching DR. WHO.
164 posted on 12/08/2003 9:36:46 PM PST by Captain Peter Blood
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To: RandallFlagg
In a JTF television program which aired in Manhattan on Sunday, September 11, 1994 - precisely seven years to the day before the horrendous Muslim Nazi attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon - Chaim Ben Pesach explicitly predicted that the Muslim terrorists who bombed the Twin Towers in 1993 would return to finish their bloody work, mercilessly murdering thousands of Americans.

The audio is chilling.

173 posted on 12/08/2003 10:15:22 PM PST by tubavil
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To: RandallFlagg
Wow.  This is actually much, much better than I thought it would be.

Ever since the first ad, almost a year ago, I assumed it was going to suck.

So far, it's actually good Sci Fi.

174 posted on 12/08/2003 10:38:05 PM PST by Psycho_Bunny
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To: RandallFlagg
I tried.

I gave up when "Starbuck" jogged past some guy who was dressed in a 2003 A.D. suit and tie that looked like he had stolen it out of Bill O'Reilly's closet and some people wandering around in 2003 A.D. polo shirts.

Based on the preview, which I found I could watch only if I turned the sound off, the costumes look like someone went out to Goodwill and bought the crappiest stuff they could find. Even the uniforms don't fit properly.

181 posted on 12/09/2003 1:26:33 AM PST by Victoria_R (Don't like "modern dress" opera either; it screams "cheap production values!")
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To: RandallFlagg
I wrote the following review for the various lists I'm on:

Let me preface this by saying I am one of the biggest Battlestar Galactica fans to ever come along the pike. I started watching it from Day 1 in 1978 (I was 13 and in the eighth grade) and caught every episode. Over the years I've watched the series several more times. I even muddled through the execrable “Galactica 1980” (though I don’t consider it part of “canon”).

I approached the Science Fiction Channel’s current efforts with both anticipation and foreboding. Of late there has been a tendency for Hollywood to take a perfectly good idea from the past and completely trash it. I’d heard the hype — a female Starbuck; the Cylons weren’t robots but human-looking androids — hence my trepidation. However, I promised myself I would approach this as a stand-alone project.

As a stand-alone it almost works.

The person or persons writing the script have some familiarity with the original. They even gave one of the flight leaders the name “Tag,” an obscure reference to a pilot in the original series (“They got Bunker! They got Tag!”). A few bars from the original theme were played during the flyby at the museum dedication.

The writers did not throw away the robotic Cylons. A mock up of the original centurion was mounted in the museum that was the Galactica, and the Colonial representative in the opening scenes was looking at the specifications for the same model. The female android mentions the model still exists because it has its uses. The newer Cylons look a bit more like a cross between the killer robot in “Judge Dread” and the battle droids from Star Wars. They still have their red, scanning “eye.” The Cylon fighters are no longer manned (robotted?) but are themselves robotic — with the same scanning red eye.

There is some effort to even make the physics right, though it is still pretty much Hollywood space. The ships have directional thrusters (which show as little gas jets around the nose of the vessel). The spacecraft still maneuver like aircraft though, so I’m not sure why they even made the effort.

The biggest disappointment was the Battlestar Galactica itself. The original ship had a gorgeous, lumpy, “I mean business” look. The current version, from what I could see of it (my eyes aren’t what they used to be and the ship is on the screen for only a few seconds at a time) looks more like a flying prophylactic (“ribbed, for her pleasure”). It is much smoother (except for the aforementioned ribs) and appears to have large, clear windows covering much of its surface. I could be wrong, but I need to get a longer, better look at the ship.

The interior is also a bit of a disappointment. The original ship looked like a warship inside; pipes and conduits lined the bulkheads and it had a definite military feel to it. The new version goes more Star Trek-y in its interior decoration, with a nod to the military (the old-style Navy squawk boxes mounted on the bulkheads were a nice touch). On the plus side, the writers have some experience with the Navy, as many of the orders given and jargon used by the crew rang truer to these old salty ears than some of the stuff I’ve heard pass for bridge chatter come out of Hollywood.

I’m not sure what to make of them turning the original character’s names into call signs. “Apollo” and “Starbuck” were, for me, those character’s names. They were memorable, too. I couldn’t tell you what the characters’ “real” names are in the newer version (though they were definitely American-sounding — I think Apollo’s was “Lee” and Adama’s first name is “William”). The female Starbuck also works to an extent. She’s definitely got the original’s carefree attitude, but this one has a chip on her shoulder a mile wide. The two-hour first episode had more sex in it than an episode of the Love Boat; the folks most likely to be watching this are people like me who began watching the original series when we were younger. We want action, dammit, not love scenes.

The female Starbuck also brings up another question: are they going to have a Cassiopeia character? This was my wife’s favorite character and one of the reasons she watched the new series with me. Of course, when I explained that a “Publican” (Cassiopeia’s profession in the original series) appeared to have been the equivalent of a call girl, she became noticeably upset…

The pacing of the first episode was slow, and the regular sex play didn’t help matters any. The special effects are definitely above the SciFi Channel’s regular fare, though not up to ILM standards. The producers appear to have taken a leaf from Babylon 5’s book and invested in decent CGI for most of the space scenes.

I’ll give the first episode a B overall. Hopefully things will pick up.

184 posted on 12/09/2003 4:05:29 AM PST by Junior (To sweep, perchance to clean... Aye, there's the scrub.)
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To: RandallFlagg
Well, I thought I wouldn't like it, but I do. A couple of things that I liked:

The Cylons aren't interested in a negotiated truce. They want to destroy humanity completely. The "liberals" on the show have yet to figure that out. We shall see how this plays out.

Better character development. Some insight into the people rather than just set piece characters such as "fighter jock".

Much better effects, but it is 2003. Sure the flight physics are still wrong but at least there is an attempt to make them more realistic.

A couple of things I didn't like (maybe a little picky):

Mixed up military ranks. Commander is a Naval rank, but in this show Captain Adama is junior to Commander Adama. Opposite of the real rank structure. Of course this could be because they are "aliens" afterall.

Baltar is somehow of duped into giving the Cylon "female" access to the defense systems just for a roll in the hay? Kinda weak IMHO.

Smoke trails from the missiles? I'd like to think they would use something besides chemical propellant.

And just where does the omni-direction lighting come from in deep space? Everything seemed to be evenly lit.
185 posted on 12/09/2003 5:24:43 AM PST by PogySailor
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To: RandallFlagg
I fell asleep before the first commercial.
186 posted on 12/09/2003 5:28:50 AM PST by Rebelbase
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To: RandallFlagg
I liked it. It had a gritty, documentary feel and a more-or-less realistic setting. The characters live in houses (not domes) and wear suits and ties (not unisex jumpsuits) and most of the military personnel are shown doing realistic military things — swabbing decks, damage control work, dealing with meaningless, idiotic paperwork — instead of lounging around the ship’s cocktail bar like they do in some sci-fi TV shows I could mention.

(The announcements on the 1MC — the Galactica’s PA system — also caused a chuckle. “Attention all hands. EVA work in progress on the hull. Please do not radiate electronic equipment”, etc. If I had I dime for every time that “do not radiate” word was passed on the 'PRISE...).

The acting was also quite good by TV standards, and I especially enjoyed the cinematography — lots of SteadiCam work on the character side and the power-zoom “news camera” style special effects shots gave the show a fresh, dramatic sense of realism. The lady Cylon was portrayed with both pathos and menace, and I even liked the chick Starbuck.

So far, I like this new Galactica. Let’s see what develops tonight.

201 posted on 12/09/2003 6:41:18 AM PST by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?)
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To: RandallFlagg
It's not often I fall asleep at a movie.
This turkey had all the hallmarks of being put together by Hollywood perverts.

Meanwhile satisfying entertainment like Threat Matrix is threatend with cancellation. Go figure.

205 posted on 12/09/2003 6:48:44 AM PST by Publius6961 (40% of Californians are as dumb as a sack of rocks.)
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To: RandallFlagg
I caught an old one and the storyline was positive with regards to a missile shiled. there were the Russians and the US and they were at war, and the Russians fired first, the BG was there to put up a "laser shiled" to prevent the missiles from landing down. It was pretty amazing to see.
217 posted on 12/09/2003 7:22:04 AM PST by Benrand
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To: RandallFlagg
This guy seems to dislike the new show. I'll have to wait until the 2nd episode to decide, but I really don't care much for the Apollo character being played as a whiney, petulent child. Even the gender-bending Starbuck and alcoholic Col. Tigh are easier to accept.

******************************

TV Review: Battlestar Galactica

A disappointingly minimalist and uninvolving rendering of a very promising concept.

December 05, 2003 - "Never create what you can't control" implores the promotional campaign for the Sci Fi Channel's "reinvention" of Battlestar Galactica. Perhaps the network should have heeded its own advice: Rarely in the history of entertainment has a "re-imagining" demonstrated so much contempt for its source material – and rarely has a project with so much innate potential failed on so many fundamental levels. The new Galactica is not just a sewer dweller of a remake – it is a behemoth of troubled and inprecise storytelling whose brightest moments are only dim approximations of what they might have been.

The trouble seems to stem from the ground up – it's difficult to look at this "miniseries" (a two-part, four-hour TV movie) and believe The Powers That Be had any true understanding of the qualities that allowed the original 1978 television series to remain in people's memories for over two decades, or possessed the slightest comprehension of the stirring human drama indigenous in the concept itself.
Original series creator Glen A. Larson's multifaceted, allegorical epic has been replaced here by a one-dimensional "bottle" show (industry term for a show that rarely leaves a contained environment). The original series could be seen as a scathing examination of reverse imperialism: An enlightened, borderline decadent culture (the "human race" – a.k.a. Western Civilization) is run from its homeland by an oppressive empire of mechanical warriors who relentlessly hunt them down – bent on genocidally exterminating mankind. These automatons were utterly uninterested in the desires, hopes, or fears of others – they wanted only one way of things in the universe – their way – and would settle for nothing less. So, in essence, Galactica was originally an allegory for Western Civilization (the United States, Great Britain, etc.) being bullied and burned in the same way we have bullied and burned other nations for centuries.

Piled on top of this sublime socio-political undercurrent were several other intriguing ironies and conceits:

These mechanical nemeses were called Cylons. They were a humanoid species who became so entwined with its technology that the technology became a physical part of them. I.e., they were "the Borg" – about a decade before the Borg debuted on Star Trek: The Next Generation. Despite their technology-over-naturalism approach, the Cylon hierarchy of command was actually rotting from within due to some very human failings: Greed, opportunism, and lack of accountability perpetually hindered the Cylon efforts to exterminate mankind. The human failings of these technically perfect machines was slowly becoming their undoing.

These humans, who are being hunted from existence by these pesky lords of technology, repeatedly turn to technology to save themselves.

No matter how you look at it, the show's core was about faith. The characters in the original series did not always agree with each other, nor did they always comprehend (individually, or as a populous) what their future held. Not all of them were certain they would even find the new home they were seeking – "a shining planet known as Earth" – nor did they always believe in the people leading them there. But, somehow, they always found faith. Not just faith in "Gods" or "lords" (although religion & its place in society were certainly elements in the series) – faith in The Way of Things. Faith that tragic endings really can herald new beginnings. Faith in the axiom that we are only as alone as we let ourselves be. Faith in the strength of fellowship – sometimes having someone at our side in the darkest hour is more meaningful than the most powerful weapon anyone can construct. Faith that hope is more significant than all the answers we could ever actively seek. Faith that somehow, in some way, things will be better.

These qualities are not being mentioned in order to talk-up the (admittedly flawed) original series. This is simply meant to provide a sampling of the innate conceptual depth you will not find in the new Galactica. Gone is nearly every edgy and unique undercurrent that fuels the basic premise. Galactica is about a holocaust, yet the new movie offers no moments as gutwrenchingly truthful as the original series' pan around the Battlestar's bridge...to see the faces of Galactica's crew...crying in anguish...as they watch live video feeds of their homeworlds being obliterated. Here, Galactica gets wind of the Cylon attack on the human's homeworlds, and her crew stands around discussing the incident as if chatting about the score of a football game. There's a moment when lead Edward James Olmos believes someone he loves to be dead – he looks more like he needs laxatives than appearing genuinely upset. The people in this movie are as cold and mechanical as the Cylons they are fighting – and as cold and mechanical as the desperately contrived plot around them. All things considered, it's rather silly – and extremely distancing.

There's a very real sense this new Galactica is terrified to be genuine. Which is odd given the producers' repeated insistence that their new "take" on the show was designed to accentuate both realism and humanity. But every moment that (even skittishly) approaches being "real" or "human" is catastrophically muted by innate tackiness and sleazy excess. There is sex on this show –– more sex than many viewers have likely seen (or had) in some time. But there is no love making. There is hostility, doubt, and anger –– but not towards ideas that matter. The humans focus it on each other –– where is affection, respect, and cohesion in a time of apocalyptic crisis? There is spoken remorse, but where are the tears? The good ship Galactica rarely embodies heroism, decency, or any quality that makes humanity exceptional –– only dysfunction, distrust, and antagonism are evident. And if this is the measure of the human race, why...exactly...are we worth saving?
Galactica is utterly annihilated by narrative laziness, and a staggering inattention to detail –– but this is only a reflection of logic gaffes which eventually grind the show's Teletubbies-like pacing to a nearly complete halt. Bizarre inconsistencies like:

Cylons use nuclear weapons. If "nukes" exist in this universe, then so must the Electo-Magnetic Pulse (EMP) that accompanies the blast. EMP can stop machines dead in their tracks. Why isn't it used against the Cylons here? It is not –– here, with no explanation given. In this Galactica universe, the holocaust that sets mankind on the run to begin with would, in actuality, be something of a wash.

The human race has now mastered faster-than-light travel of some sort, and the creation of artificial intelligence. Why are we still having trouble beating diseases like cancer, against which significant headway has already been made in our (much more primitive) modern time? Instead, we are treated to a profoundly awkward sequence in which Mary McDonnell –– suffering from the disease –– sneaks into the restroom of a space shuttle to feel her breast on-camera.

The Cylons despise mankind so much that they will settle for nothing less than bombing us out of existence. So, the next generation model of Cylon...what...looks human? They're embracing the template for the very thing they wish to destroy? No matter how desperately the filmmakers try to misdirect us from this fact, it doesn't bring any integrity or –– or any baseline points of association –– to the proceedings. If anything, the humanizing of the Cylons nearly completely undercuts the story both variants of Galactica are trying to tell. Which goes back to the lack of understanding...not just about Galactica, but dramatic dynamic in general...mentioned above. It is difficult, if not impossible, to undertake an endeavor successfully if its essence has not been clearly defined.

Regardless of whether this miniseries is judged as a "remake" / "re-invention" –– or if it is considered on its own merits –– Galactica may ultimately be remembered as one of the most dispassionate, antagonistic, pessimistic, and impersonal "dramas" mounted for television in some time. It shuns the most precious conceit in its own basic story...indeed, the most precious commodity anywhere: Hope. This doesn't make for a show that is evocative, atmospheric, or emotionally challenging. This simply creates for a relentlessly unpleasant viewing experience. Battlestar Galactica is as artificially inflated as some of the most hollow programming ever aired on television.

Beautiful people...posing and posturing...spend their time being smart asses (or shouting and bickering) because they are not grown-up enough –– or professional enough –– to communicate more effectively, or attain their goals through any other means. Galactica more closely resembles an episode of melodramatic oldies like Melrose Place or Dynasty than epic science fiction, or any mythos ever created. It feels (and even looks) more like the Wing Commander feature film than a show that is trying to be as unique and as different as its producers have repeatedly asserted. In fact, Wing Commander isn't a bad comparison to this new miniseries. If you've seen that movie, then you've a fair clue what to expect here.

Which begs the question: If this is all The Powers That Be ever intended to bring to the show, why bother to utilize such a compelling premise at all, especially in light of the abandonment of its most basic tenets? Glen A. Larson –– who did not write this miniseries, but was owed a "written by" credit on this new project (as creator of the source material) per Writers Guild of America stipulations –– opted to not place his real name on this reboot, installing the pseudonym Christopher Eric James instead. Which, in itself, speaks volumes.

In the end, it is Galactica fans –– who have waited decades for their show to return –– who will be most hurt by potentially negative fallout from this miniseries. Should the project evolve into a television series, it's unlikely anyone interested in the original will be able to stomach Battlestar Light on a weekly basis. Should ratings for this broadcast not pan out, the fanbase will be summarily blamed by a network decrying "no one wants to see Galactica anymore!" –– and little thought will be given to the disenfranchising nature of the product being generated. This has happened before, when Warner Bros. (unaffiliated with this project) decided fans didn't want more Batman movies, after the dismal failure of Batman and Robin. No one stopped to think that fans did, in actuality, want more Batman –– they just wanted better product...and something more truthful to the namesake...than what they got. They voted with their pocket books, and they got burned. It's taken 6 years for another Bat flick to finally hit the pipeline. It's likely Galactica would take quite a bit longer to be re-re-born if things don't go well when the miniseries airs on December 8 and 9. Which isn't a reasonable fate for any title of this nature, and a graphic exemplification of why more care should be taken when undertaking such endeavors.

The new Battlestar Galactica embodies everything wrong with the creative process in filmmaking and television these days –– and plainly illustrates the all-too-obvious hazards of remaking material simply for the sake of remaking it. Perhaps someday Galactica will live again...again, and someone will come along and reverse engineer the damage that Moore and company have brought to the equation. Maybe then we'll end up with a product that actually demonstrates a bit of thought and common sense –– and find a show that remotely resembles the series being deliberately evoked through the use of the title itself...

-- Glen Oliver

BSG Miniseries Review

230 posted on 12/09/2003 8:50:49 AM PST by Charles Martel (Liberals are the crab grass in the lawn of life.)
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To: RandallFlagg
I kind of liked it, and think I am going to watch tonight to see how it turned out.

I thought the same things about political correctness. Okay, they have a female Starbuck, Adama's hispanic, Boomer's asian, and Colonel Tigh is white. Things are all mixed up. :) Weren't the cylons a creation of aliens?

They could have made it a lot worse, and maybe it works after all. The whole father and son thing over a lost brother was a bit formulaic and you'd figure they would have learned not to have too many interconnected systems on their warships. But in a way their reliance on antiquated technology to fight the cylons is interesting. Too much automation weakens humanity, but automation makes things easy. Baltar is different too. He's not the big "I have humanity" kind of traitor. He's the "thinks with the wrong head" kind of traitor. Because of selfishness he destroys humanity. I can't imagine this Baltar in one of the alien ships laughing and humans dying. Maybe this is better, I don't know.

236 posted on 12/09/2003 9:20:29 AM PST by Liberal Classic (No better friend, no worse enemy.)
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To: All; KayEyeDoubleDee
I think some of youse guys [-n- gals] are being just a little too harsh on the PC aspect, especially with regards to the decision to cast Starbuck as a broad. Obviously that decision was made in part to satisfy the PC censors, but largely it was made because Katee Sackhoff is hot, hot, hot. And she's a broad in the classical sense of the term - huge, broad hips - but also in the modern of the term as well: Huge, broad shoulders. [Rack ain't half bad either, and seemed to be natural, although that's increasingly difficult to discern these days...] She's so athletic, in fact, that she looks like she's got some competitive swimming in her background [think Jenny Thompson, Mary T. Meagher or Janet Evans s/p puberty].

And Tricia Helfer as Evil Cylon Babe #6 is simply über-hot.

There's some excellent work on the male side as well; granted, Lee/Apollo was a little on the whiny side last night [and I wasn't thrilled about the fact that his Mom & Dad got divorced], but there was outstanding chemistry between Edward James Olmos, as Adama, and Michael Hogan, as his Number Two. [Hogan is the one who gets bitch-slapped by Lady Starbucks at the poker table, but it turns out he ain't the wuss you'd expect him to be.]

The jury will rule on Political Correctness with the conclusion this evening. The biggest dilemma is presented by Stands With A Fist Up Her Ass: Will she become an evil Marxist-Fascist-Cylon-Fifth-Columnist Hillary Clinton, or a take-no-prisoners, iron-maiden, I'm-straddling-you-in-your-wildest-fantasies Ann Coulter? I'm worried that they're pushing her towards the former, and that Olmos, Hagen, et al will degenerate into a bunch of Harold-Ickesish-Sidney-Blumenthalian-Rahm-Emanuelian girly men.

It will also be interesting to see what they do with the character of Baltar. He was a really slimy [Bill] Clintonesque philanderer in part one [although it's hard to blame him, given the quality of the chicks that were spreading for him last night]; we'll see whether he grows a spine in part two.

240 posted on 12/09/2003 9:37:08 AM PST by mosel-saar-ruwer
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To: RandallFlagg
Long trailers found here if anyone wants to check it out.
http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/trailers/full/
250 posted on 12/09/2003 9:58:10 AM PST by Slicksadick
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