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Posted on 11/20/2025 6:12:42 PM PST by Angelino97
Is it wrong for white Christian men to have a sense of identity?
Ben Shapiro seems to think so. During a recent interview with Dana Loesch, the Daily Wire host lamented the rise in white identity among young conservatives. “I think we can start with what’s driving this in the first place,” Shapiro said. “For a decade or more, there was an attempt by the left to target Christian white men.”
Continuing, he explained:
"In saying that over and over and over, they started to create a feeling in a lot of young white men, that as a targeted group, they actually were an identity group of their own, and that now as an identity group of their own, they must rise up and lay low anyone who is not a member of that group."
Shapiro’s two assertions are correct: the left promulgates anti-white identity politics, and many younger conservatives have developed a sense of white identity in response to it.
But his read of the situation is simplistic. White people can have a positive sense of identity without needing to “rise up and lay low” people from other backgrounds.
It is reasonable not only for white conservatives but also for conservatives of any racial background to object to demographic change, race preferences, and the demonization of European contributions to world civilization. One could certainly oppose these things on colorblind grounds, as conservative activist Chris Rufo has done, since it appears to be the most effective way to build a broad coalition capable of winning elections and changing laws.
But just as Asians may oppose woke policies on the grounds that they feel personally targeted, so, too, do many white people oppose them because they feel targeted. It is entirely reasonable to oppose a policy that directly targets you because of your race, while supporting a colorblind approach to undoing those policies.
In other words, it would be entirely sensible for a white American to object to becoming a minority in a country where discrimination against and demonization of whites is not only legal but widely celebrated. I fail to see why a self-respecting person of any race would support such discriminatory treatment of their own group. Does this qualify as white identity politics?
Clearly, it would be a grievous mistake to look at our current situation and conclude that the solution is to hate all non-white people, expel all blacks from America, advocate for violence, or become as loud and annoying about one’s white identity as the woke activists are about theirs. Those who espouse this hardline white identity politics are often crude and disagreeable, and I’m convinced most on the right who categorically reject any form of white identity are responding to them.
Yet those who seek to quash any sense of white self-identification among younger generations misunderstand the phenomenon and are doomed to fail. Life experiences for young Americans differ dramatically from those of their elders.
For one thing, many young white people grew up in raucous minority-majority schools, where to be white may be to stick out like a sore thumb. Spend a little time on X and you are bound to see videos of black mob violence against white teenagers in high schools across the country. It doesn’t help that in class these students are taught to feel ashamed of their ancestors’ real or perceived sins, a narrative that is also promoted by political elites, entertainers, and the mainstream media.
It’s a sorry situation. But one thing’s clear: telling young white Americans that these problems don’t exist is the surest way to lose credibility in their eyes.
Like it or not, many young white people are being forced to confront the realities of race. To ensure they avoid overreacting, it is important to eschew the finger-wagging and moral denunciations that brought us here.
Those who point to antiwhite discrimination are now so accustomed to scolding that they’ve become immune to it. Instead, what is needed is to calmly and rationally acknowledge the injustice they see while explaining why things shouldn’t be taken too far.
What does such an explanation look like?
In the first place, it’s important to stress that hardline white identity politics is a dead end for the right. If ending anti-white racism and mass immigration are the goals, then the right must build a coalition capable of winning elections and changing laws.
Appealing only to white people is unlikely to make that happen. In fact, Trump campaigned on mass deportations and opposition to anti-white DEI policies, yet he won by increasing his share of minority voters at the same time he supported these policies. Had he adopted a hard white identity politics approach, not only would he have alienated non-white voters, but he also would have alienated many whites.
Second, hardline white identity politics doesn’t offer a path to individual or national flourishing. Look at the white nationalist movement to see what happens to those who subscribe to and get caught up in this ideology. It always ends badly. They find themselves cut off from polite society—not only because of the risk of doxing, but also because the demand for an ever-ratcheting ideological purity puts one at odds with most people, even white conservatives, who do not share their views.
It is perhaps no surprise that when one looks at the numerous high-profile white nationalists who have disavowed the movement—from Derek Black to Jeff Schoep—one notes how easily, once leaving, they became leftists. If this kind of intellectual instability isn’t a wise idea at the individual level, it certainly isn’t going to be at the national level.
The third and last reason is that the form of white identity advocated by hardline proponents is not, as they assert, historically accurate. It’s true that white identity has played a role in American history. British colonists recognized themselves as distinct from Indians and black slaves and understood that those racial differences were greater than whatever ethnic and religious divides separated them from other Europeans.
But modern proponents of hardline white identity politics, who reduce everything to race, ignore the realities of ethnicity, culture, and religion. Putting your racial identity above all else is a sign of deracination, not a return to tradition.
Nevertheless, that doesn’t mean that race is an inconsequential factor in society. We can support racially neutral laws while at the same time opposing the third-world demographic transformation of the West.
Recognizing and celebrating the unique achievements of Europeans need not entail supremacism. We can acknowledge that group differences exist without resorting to hatred. And there’s simply no reason why white Christian men should be uniquely denied a sense of identity.
Some, like Ben Shapiro, might disagree on that last point. But the onus is ultimately on them to demonstrate that their position is not rooted in an anti-white double standard.
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That's definitely part of it. My namebearing line was English and possibly Welsh when the first one came over and landed in Jamestown in 1649. In the 10 generations since then, some Irish got mixed in along with one of my grandmothers who was German. A little bit of "Southern European" also got mixed in. So like most White Americans at this point, I'm a mutt.
The reason is simple. If she's hot, then she's hot. Who gives a damn where her family originally came from? :^)
Developing the modern world however from universities to vehicles, communications, modern medicine, the whole concept of human rights, democracy, etc etc....that was all White people. Anybody who makes a phone call, rides in a car, enjoys air conditioning, listens to recorded music, watches TV, preserves his food in a refrigerator, etc who is not White is "culturally appropriating" White people's technology. Hey, YOUR logic Lefties. Don't blame me if you don't like it when I apply it to the accomplishments of MY people just like everybody else does. Oh by the way, to the rest of the world: You're welcome.
Let’s see ......
Rembrandt
Rubens
Michelangelo
Plato
Shakespeare
Newton
Salk
Bach
Mozart
Haydn
Beethoven
Dostoevsky
Faulkner
Hemingway
Locke
Dali
Picasso
Pythagoras
Kierkegaard
Twain
Nietzsche
Socrates
Aristotle
Aquinas
Blake
Bacon
Freud
Brahms
Handel
Einstein
Tesla
Henry Ford
Schubert
Mendelssohn
Tchaikovsky
Giotto
Van Dyck
Copernicus
Van Allen
Alexander the Great
Darwin
Galileo
Da Vinci
Monet
Van Gogh
Matisse
Homer
Virgil
Sophocles
Cervantes
Milton
Dickens
Voltaire
Tolstoy
Calvin
James Joyce
TS Eliot
Kafka
Fitzgerald
Chekhov
Caravaggio
Vermeer
Raphael
Renoir
Degas
Verdi
Hippocrates
Handel
Vivaldi
Corelli
Locatelli
Rachmaninov
Dvorak
Mahler
Epicurus
Descartes
Cicero
Aurelius
Augustine
Erasmus
Hobbes
Pascal
Montesquieu
Diderot
Rousseau
Hegel
Santayana
Brahe
Euclid
Fibonacci
Hipparchus
Ptolemy
Hubble
Kepler
Mendel
Pasteur
Vesalius
Pauling
Hummel
Boccherini
Rossini
Edison
Augustus
Marconi
Man Ray
Joyce
Archimedes
Pasteur
Babbage
Ben Franklin
Gutenberg
Morse
Bell
Faraday
Stravinsky
Pushkin
Virgil
Poe
Wordsworth
Coleridge
Spinoza
Goethe
Friedman
Monet
Cézanne
Tolkien
CS Lewis
Solzhenitsyn
That’s off the top of my head. There are many, many more.
Re-read post 61.
When can we White folk have the WET (White Entertainment Television) channel?
Thanks for all the links.
To me, saying that someone like Dennis Praeger or Joan Rivers is not white, is a flight from reality. Someone might have better luck convincing me that Dylan Mulvaney is a woman.
It seems that collective insanity is a real thing.
Nick Fuentes pushes America First. Fine with me. I think we should avoid America Only. I think he also pushes Christian Nationalism. It seems to exclude American Jews. That seems wrong on the face of it. However, it seems clear that some Jews have chosen to exclude themselves from whites. If there is fault, it is mutual.
Nick Fuentes is no worse than American Jews who blame white people, excluding themselves of course. How long can I say that I support my buddy, when my buddy says he rejects me?
I’d like to add Islam to the discussion. I think it is an imperialist political movement as much as it is a religion. It’s a real danger to the US, Europe, and Israel. The world seems to be in denial, as it is on sex (only two), and the “Jewish race,” which is not a race at all.
If the day comes that a mob of black people are chasing you down the street screaming “whitey we are gonna get you”....
Just remember...they were wrong.
You are not white.
“It is not possible to have an identity as “white” as opposed to an identity as “German”, “English”, “Scits” etc.”
Explain it to them.
I am sure they will understand.
Lol.
Also, aren’t most Jews White?
.......
Evidently not any more.
“White European Christians can identify as White, be proud of their history, and defend their people against discrimination and defamation”
Agreed, without reservation.
I also think something broader should be pursued. Western civilization belongs to anyone who chooses it, regardless of race, religion, nationality or “tribe.”
National borders exist and I recommend patriotism. I’m a member of the American tribe. Any American, regardless of race or religion, who identifies positively as American is part of my tribe. Anyone, citizen or not, who rejects America and Americans should leave.
He is blind.
That Scandinavian nicy nice perhaps?
Like blacks constantly flashing black power hand signals?
‘White European Christians can identify as White, be proud of their history, and defend their people against discrimination and defamation’
I’ll go along with that as long as there is a rejection of racial shame/blame.
“bad stuff that happened centuries ago.”
I call that history. I don’t think any group is exempt. If a group has an honest, recorded history, it’s not nice.
As an example, in a state of ignorance one could imagine that the Americas were populated by noble savages prior to the arrival of Europeans. Now that know a thing or two about the history of the Americas prior to the arrival of Europeans, we see that it was not so nice.
The other thing is *when* Europeans abroad DO voice admiration for fixtures of ‘American’ culture — it includes black culture. From Michael Jackson to blues/jazz music and the Gospel music and choirs they see in films as distinctly American style of worship.
And to @ChessExpert: the point is that Europeans do NOT define identity the same way as Americans do. There is no “pan-whiteness.”
If you were to try and get a Ukrainian, literally at war with all Russia right now to agree some to some “pan-white European Christian” identity - good luck. Even just saying “Kiev and not Kyiv” could get you killed.
The Irish do not want to be lumped with Brits. Portuguese are not Spaniards, French are not Germans, Finns are not Danes, Serbs are not Albanians, the list goes on...
And obviously getting them to sing Star Spangled Banner, wave American flags, and abandon traditions of Christian worship going back centuries (that most Americans would find foreign) would be a moot effort....
Sure they may burger + fries every now and then (which both take influence from Europe anyway) and even do so at a at McDonald’s (but 9/10 there is NO drive-thru) — but they don’t shop at Walmart (sorry being facetious there) but you catch my drift.
Walmart tried to operating in Germany and perhaps a few other places, but it didn’t work. Culturally.
So it’s better to just leave it the label at “white-skinned American born.”
“Repeating here but: Germans are not French. Irish are not Brits. Finns are not Danes...Greeks are not Serbs, or Italian. Spaniards and Portuguese border each other but ARE NOT “united” racially or otherwise from THEIR perspective...That’s not how THEY view identity. “
BS! People can belong to multiple groups at the same time. You can be white, Californian, Irish-American, male, straight, conservative, etc. Each one of those groups has it’s own particular self interests it looks to promote and defend.
When whites are attacked as a group, most will rise up and defend themselves as a group regardless of the other subgroup they belong to. It’s true of every other ratial group as well - blacks, Asians, etc. Or haven’t you noticed?
Forgot to add sports figures like Jordan and Lebron being iconic alongside with jazz/blues/Michael Jackson/Gospel choirs etc...
And speaking of sports...while basketball is very much a thing in some European corners, hockey, tennis the like - the quintessential American culture fixture of NFL football is NOT. It's niche and its European fanbase includes their immigrant-populations.
Soccer is their continental uniting sport.
So see for yourself: go live in a Polish village, or a Dutch town...and then get back on the plane and see who you connect more with culturally. Who cares and knows more about the giants in your 'white American' history...from Neil Armstrong to Ben Franklin. A black American tourist or a native of a foreign land that just happens to share your skin tone?
*sigh* and when speaking of a "pan-white" identity or culture, that is different from "pan-European" political identity- which is where something like the European Union comes in. Ukraine wants in the E.U. - but Russia no. And there was Brexit not too long ago...but that's a whole other can of worms...
So specify you mean white and AMERICAN-born...and not lumping yourself with a villager from Poland who doesn’t speak English.
The KKK sure didn’t consider my Polish ancestors to be “White”.
And that Pole would be infuriated if you were to suggest that he is no different from a German or a Russian because of melanin content.
Exactly and as I said above, any cursory understanding of European history -- both recent and not so recent...can remind you why a Pole wouldn't care to "unite" with a "NATO ally" like Germany or a non-NATO one like Russia. Their remains inherent division and suspicion of both peoples embedded in their psyche going back centuries...
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