Posted on 06/17/2025 12:30:11 AM PDT by Words Matter
The anti-Israel, pro-Iran faction on the right lost Trump. Whether or not America takes part in the fighting, the administration is complicit in the battle against a rogue, terrorist state. And the isolationist “woke right” is furious about that.
Jonathan S. Tobin. (June 16, 2025 / JNS).
Who is losing the most in the successful strikes on Iran by the Israeli Defense Forces? At the top of the list is, obviously, the Islamist regime itself. It has had its terrorist infrastructure in the form of the leadership of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, as well as what is left of its military. And, of course, it has suffered significant damage to its nuclear facilities, in addition to its oil and gas industry, which is the foundation of the despotic government’s already-shaky economy.
We don’t know yet what this will mean for the future of the theocratic regime that has maintained power since it took over the country in 1979. And it’s still far from clear whether the credibility lost by the way that the Israeli Air Force has been able to operate with impunity, destroying the government’s assets and leaders, will be enough to shake off their tyrannical grip on a nation that desperately needs to replace them.
The other big loser in this struggle is a “woke right” faction of the conservative movement in the United States that opposes Israel and has been fervently opposed to any action to stop Iran from gaining nuclear weapons. More to the point, this rag-tag group of talk-show hosts, right-wing influencers and social-media gurus who can’t seem to mention Israel without betraying their antisemitic tendencies has lost President Donald Trump.
Or to be more precise, they never really had him. The Tucker Carlson factor..
We did not get out of Germany and Japan. We did crush the underlying ideologies involved.
We were unwilling to do this in the Middle East.
Who keeps saying “Death to America”?
Don’t play coy with me. You know darn well I mean what does victory mean *in this context*.
You want war so bad then tell us...what can we reasonably expect to get out of it, in exchange for thousands of body bags? Thousands of widows? Thousands of men coming back maimed.
WE. As in the USA. Not Israel.
Neocons in the 2000s: "If you don't support Bush's Iraq War then you're PRO-TERRORIST!"
Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.
Lying Tucker is not against wars. He is OK with Hamas and Iran continue to use Gazans as cannon fodders.
We stayed in Europe, we stayed in the Middle-East, we stayed in Asia. We did everything you want and spent flagrantly. We are $37 trillion in debt, under invasion by illegals, and in a cold war at home with a leftist party bent on destroying what’s left of the United States.
We clean house at home first. The rest of the world will do just fine continuing to tear each other apart without our involvement.
“Tucker is not against wars. He is OK with Hamas and Iran continue to use Gazans as cannon fodders.” - yes
There’s only one definition, even in this context.
Who keeps (or possibly “kept”) saying “Death to America” all this time?
I said I want victory, which is the opposite of wanting war. Those who do not want victory are those who want war, i.e. of those who are purportedly on our side—they want a war that makes us spend our might in vain and thus weakens us.
We did not stay in Europe, actually. We handed control of NATO over to the EU in the 1990s; consider what happened in the Balkans. Those bases ended up being US in name only, thanks to Clinton.
And we are no longer in the Middle East, thanks to Obama and Biden. Have things improved?
It would not take long to clean house at home; only takes the will. And therein lies the problem, on some fronts.
Yes. We fought to win against Germany and Japan. When we fought to win. When we planned to win. We knew what that meant and we worked to secure it.
Our “leaders” in the wars since have lost that thread. And it’s gotten worse, not better.
So does “victory” to you mean Iran’s current “Death to America” leadership is destroyed and replaced?
Yes. We exert the will to win at home. First and foremost. When we’ve mastered that, let’s see where we stand with everyone. Until then, no more blood, sweat, and treasure to people that want to tear each other apart.
As for Asia, we ran out of two countries there twice without victory. And we ended up deluding ourselves that if we traded with one particular Asian country, we could convert them away from violent, godless communism—and look at what they’ve become.
Destroyed, yes; replaced, that depends. Would a return of the Shah’s rule result in a reliable ally or at least a neutral partner? Possibly an open question, but Carter never let us explore what the answer to that would be, favoring Ruhollah Khomeini the “holy man” in Carter’s words.
Thanks for posting this, WM.
Ok, but if you destroy the Iranian leadership it will have to be replaced. Whether by us or someone else.
And what if its replacement is yet another “death to America” regime? Because it’s not like there are any shortage of people who believe that in the Islamic world.
The resurrection of “Death to America” regimes has happened in two countries that we fled by Obama and Biden respectively.
Sometimes, of course, some countries simply have to be laid waste instead of replaced. Note Rome vs. Carthage; could be a bad example, but Carthage did not rise again to threaten them.
Islamists have called us The Great Satan and chanted *Death to America* along with *Death to Israel*.
They ARE after us and have been for decades.
This war AT THE MOMENT, is between Israel and Iran, but to think that Iran won't be attacking us given the chance if complete foolhardiness.
The (feasible) opinion is that Iran doesn't want the nuked for Israel because they'd be in life for the fallout downwind, but for Europe and the US.
We have a vested interest in seeing them stopped.
Besides, if we do get involved, Trump won't keep us in it.
He'll finish the job and pull out.
You sound like the folks that have put us where we are today. Just as the Communists that say “Communism hasn’t really been tried,” forever-war boosters like to tell us, “You haven’t spent nor bled enough.”
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