Posted on 05/25/2025 4:05:48 AM PDT by JosephJames
well, firstly -- Jesus did NOT quote from Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther, or Song of Solomon --> yet you have them in your bible, don't you?
The absence of direct quotes from the Deuterocanonical books is not evidence against their inspiration, as Jesus’ silence on other canonical books (e.g., Esther) does not disqualify them. The criterion of “Jesus’ quotes” is inconsistent and arbitrary when applied selectively.
secondly - Jesus does refer to Wisdom - Wisdom 2:12–20 describes the persecution of a righteous man, mocked and condemned to death, whose trust in God is tested: “Let us lie in wait for the righteous man… let us test him with insult and torture… let us condemn him to a shameful death.” which parallels the Passion as desribed in MAtthew 27:39-44
And Jesus in John 17:1 has a parallel to Sirach 51:10 says, “I appealed to the Lord, the Father of my Lord,” which resembles Jesus’ address to God as Father (e.g., John 17:1, “Father, the hour has come”). The phrase “Lord, the Father of my Lord” is rare in Jewish texts but aligns with Jesus’ unique filial language.
Jesus' Golden rule in Matt 7:12 “Do to others whatever you would have them do to you.” is a quote from Tobit 4:15 that “Do to no one what you yourself dislike,”
Beyond Jesus's quotes, if you read the epistles you will see
Hebrews 11:35 (c. 60–70 AD): Refers to martyrs who “were tortured, refusing to accept release, that they might rise again to a better life,” likely alluding to 2 Maccabees 7:9–14, where the Maccabean martyrs die for their faith, expecting resurrection.
The Septuagint, including the Deuterocanonical books, was the primary Scripture for Greek-speaking Jews and early Christians, including in Palestine. Jesus and the apostles likely used it alongside Hebrew texts (e.g., Matthew 1:23 cites Isaiah 7:14 from the Septuagint). The Deuterocanonical books were part of the Jewish canon for many communities, as evidenced by their presence in Qumran scrolls (e.g., Sirach fragments, c. 2nd century BC).
Early fathers like Clement of Rome (c. 96 AD, 1 Clement 55, alluding to Judith) and Irenaeus (c. 180 AD, Against Heresies 5.28.3, referencing Wisdom) treated Deuterocanonical books as Scripture, reflecting their use in the church Jesus founded (Matthew 16:18).
Jesus’ mission was to fulfill Scripture (Matthew 5:17), not to quote every book. The Deuterocanonical books’ themes (resurrection in 2 Maccabees 7, wisdom in Sirach) align with His teachings, supporting their inspiration.
So that’s a different point.
We’ve already established that 1 Timothy 3:2 and Titus 1:6: The phrase “husband of one wife” (Greek: mias gynaikos anēr, literally “man of one woman”) emphasizes fidelity and moral character, not a requirement to be married. It prohibits polygamy or remarriage after divorce (common in Greco-Roman culture) and ensures a bishop’s household is well-ordered. The text does not say bishops must be married, only that if married, they must have one wife.
So we both agree that the epistles don’t say a bishop SHOULD be married.
Now to your question about the DISCIPLINE of a bishop to be celibate — this is aligned with Matt 19:10-12 where Jesus responds to the disciples’ question about marriage, saying, “Not all men can receive this saying, but only those to whom it is given… There are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to receive this, let him receive it.”
and this is referenced in 1 Corinthians 7:7–8, 32–35 where Paul writes, “I wish that all were as I myself am [unmarried]… To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is well for them to remain single as I do… The unmarried man is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, how to please the Lord; but the married man is anxious about worldly affairs, how to please his wife, and his interests are divided.”
Jesus granted the Church authority to govern its practices, including disciplinary rules like celibacy — note a discipline, NOT dogma or doctrine - this is from Matthew 16:19 and specifically from Acts 15:28–29 where the Council, led by apostles, establishes disciplinary rules (e.g., abstaining from certain foods) for Gentile Christians, showing the Church’s authority to regulate practices beyond explicit scriptural commands.
Early Christians, rooted in apostolic tradition, saw celibacy as compatible with Scripture and ideal for bishops, refuting the claim that it contradicts 1 Timothy 3:2. Your argument ignores this historical continuity.
Celibacy is a disciplinary rule, not a doctrine, and thus within the Church’s authority to set (Matthew 16:19). I think you are conflating discipline with scriptural mandates, applying an overly rigid standard.
I think you have a very low estimation of the greatness of the Second Person of the Most Holy Trinity! And thus you have no idea how great God is and how perfect the Mother of God had to be.
To enter heaven, one must be totally perfect. Thank God for purgatory, where I can get cleaned up so as to be able to enter heaven!
I immediately stopped reading your reply.
Not ‘they’, but Mr. NoClue
However...
I'm done with you and this pointless typing of words as you have NO Knowledge of any facts.
OoooH! I gots facts!! Type some to me!!!
Well, when looking at these seven CATHOLIC churches (mentioned in the first three chapters of Revelation) that John was prompted to write to by an angel...
ouch
Double washed!
Do you get dried off in between sessions?
“I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean;
I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols.
I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you...”
(Ezekiel 36:25-26).
Yeah - there’s more...
I do not think you understand some of the fundamental truths of the Christian faith!!! The Truth comes from the Creator not from the creatures. Today with the infiltration even into the Catholic Church by the Ecclesiastical Massonry, priests and bishops are no longer formed on the objective Truth from God but on the subjective truth of the creatures. Thus even few priests and bishops are able to respond to the question: Does the truth come from God or the Church? You are probably happy to hear the answer that the truth comes from God not from the Church, since protestants believe that each Christian is the infallible sources of the truth of God.
As is written in the article:
Even the priests in my diocese of Perugia, Italy did not learn in their seminary formation that THE TRUTH COMES FROM GOD, NOT FROM THE CHURCH. This fallacious formation prepares the way for the false prophet, the false pope, who will transform the Church into a counterfeit church emptied of its divine content. But as Christ intended, the Church is the servant of the Truth, not the Author of the Truth (Jn 14:6). The Church must protect and defend the precious gift of the Truth, not modify or change the truth in a hidden sly way to please the world. Thus no priest, bishop or POPE can change the Truth of Divine Revelation given by God throughout the history of mankind, infallibly explained by the Catholic Church, and is well summarized in the Catechism of the Catholic Church for adults (CCC); ed. 1992, promulgated by Pope John Paul II (http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM).
Thus getting back to your question, the documents of an Eccumenical Council of the Catholic Church are deemed infallible according to the teachings of the Catholic Church, thus there can be no contradictions between one Eccumenical Council and another. This is likewise true for the various cannonized saints, who would not be such if their writings were not orthodox.
I realize this is very hard for you to understand since protestantism is totally based of subjectivism which means every Christian is the source of genuine infallilble truth, and somehow you accept the fact that there are innumerous fundamental contradictions among protestants and independent protestant groups. Somehow you do not see the total contradiction in your logic with these two principles of protestantism, that is, each Christian is infallible, even though they are not able to agree on the most important fundamental truths.
Christ knew that there would be different interpretations of the truth. This is precisely why Christ founded one Church with the promise of being guided by the Holy Spirit in faith and morals. This does not mean that each pope is not a sinner, but that the proclaimed truths in an Eccumenical Council are protected by the Holy Spirit.
Saint Francis of Assisi, a few day before he died, indicated what would happen in this period of the great apostasy before the manifestation of the Antichrist (2Thess 2:3).
Is it possible that the prophecy of St. Francis of Assisi is for our times, and that there was a coup d’etat at the last conclave, with many Masonic cardinals already present in the Church?
SATAN WILL RECRUIT THE FALSE PROPHET FROM OUR CATHOLIC BISHOPS!
The Servant of God, Archbishop Fulton Sheen, wrote in 1948:
“[Satan] will set up a counter church which will be the ape of the [Catholic] Church … It will have all the notes and characteristics of the Church, but in reverse and EMPTIED OF ITS DIVINE CONTENT.”
“We are living in the days of the Apocalypse, the last days of our era. The two great forces – the Mystical Body of Christ and the Mystical Body of the anti-Christ – are beginning to draw battle lines for the catastrophic contest.”
“The False prophet will have A RELIGION WITHOUT A CROSS. A RELIGION WITHOUT A WORLD TO COME. A religion to destroy religions. There will be a counterfeit Church.”
“Christ’s Church the Catholic Church will be one; and the false Prophet will create the other.”
“THE FALSE CHURCH WILL BE WORLDLY, ECUMENICAL, AND GLOBAL. It will be a loose federation of churches and religions, forming some type of global association.”
“A world parliament of Churches. It will be emptied of all Divine content, it will be the mystical body of the anti-christ. The Mystical Body on earth today will have its Judas Iscariot, and he will be the false prophet. Satan will recruit him from our Bishops.”
“THE ANTICHRIST WILL NOT BE SO CALLED; OTHERWISE HE WOULD HAVE NO FOLLOWERS. He will not wear red tights, nor vomit sulphur, nor carry a trident nor wave an arrowed tail as Mephistopheles in Faust. This masquerade has helped the Devil convince men that he does not exist. When no man recognizes, the more power he exercises. God has defined Himself as “I am Who am,” and the Devil as “I am who am not.”
“Nowhere in Sacred Scripture do we find warrant for the popular myth of the Devil as a buffoon who is dressed like the first “red.” Rather is he described as an angel fallen from heaven, as “the Prince of this world,” whose business it is to tell us that there is no other world. HIS LOGIC IS SIMPLE: if there is no heaven there is no hell; if there is no hell, then there is no sin; if there is no sin, then there is no judge, and if there is no judgment then evil is good and good is evil. But above all these descriptions, OUR LORD TELLS US THAT HE WILL BE SO MUCH LIKE HIMSELF THAT HE WOULD DECEIVE EVEN THE ELECT – and certainly no devil ever seen in picture books could deceive even the elect. How will he come in this new age to win followers to his religion???”
(Communism and the Conscience of the West, by Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen, Bobbs-Merril Company, Indianapolis, 1948, pp. 24-25)
The “Prophecy of Saint Francis” (Assisi) tells us:
“2. The power of the demons will be greater than usual, the immaculate purity of our religious community and of others, will withered to the point that very few Christians will want to obey the true Sovereign Pontiff and the Roman Church with a sincere heart and perfect charity. At the decisive moment of this crisis, a personage not canonically elected, raised to the Pontificate, will endeavor to administer shrewdly to many the mortal poison of his error.
7. Some preachers will keep silent about the truth and, denying the truth, they will trample upon the truth. The sanctity of life will be held in derision by those who only profess it outwardly, and for this reason Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a worthy Pastor, but a destroyer.”
There is much evidence that Cardinal Bergoglio was not canonically elected. Visit the article:
Pope Benedict XVI Forced To Resign
http://spir-food.blogspot.it/2017/01/pope-benedict-xvi-force-to-resign.html
This is one of the greatest punishments from God, since God gave us the Ten Commandments for our good not for our harm. If we do not live the Ten Commandments as God intended, not as man decides in seeking a Christianity without the cross, we destroy ourselves!
Those who sincerely seek the truth of God with true humility will find the saving truth of God. Those who do not sincerely seek the truth of God without true humility will NOT find the saving truth of God, but will find the truth as they like the truth according to themselves. Again, this is one of the main reasons why Christ founded one Church, guided by the Holy Spirit until the end of time, because man seeks salvation but according to man’s terms which means without the cross of Christ.
We are now in the period of the great punishment without “a worthy Pastor, but a destroyer”. As Archbishop Fulton Sheen pointed out, a Catholic Bishop will end up being the false prophet which will form a pseudo church which will seek to lead all to adore the Antichrist as the Messiah (Revelations, chapter 13).
On November 11, 2013, Archbishop Carlo Maria VIGANÒ, the Apostolic Nuncio (Papal Ambassador) to the United States, addressed the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops at their annual fall meeting in Baltimore, Maryland. Archbishop Viganò quoted as “profoundly prophetic” remarks made by Blessed John Paul II (then Cardinal Wojtyla) during the Eucharistic Congress in the United States on August 13, 1976 for the Bicentennial celebration of the signing of our Declaration of Independence:
“We are now standing in the face of the greatest historical confrontation humanity has ever experienced. I do not think that the wide circle of the American Society, or the whole wide circle of the Christian Community realize this fully. We are now facing the FINAL CONFRONTATION between the Church and the anti-church, between the gospel and the anti-gospel, between Christ and the Antichrist. The confrontation lies within the plans of Divine Providence. It is, therefore, in God’s Plan, and it must be a trial which the Church must take up, and face courageously….” (Cardinal Ivan Dias also quoted this at Lourdes, France, on December 13, 2007).
Archbishop Viganò said that he viewed these words “as a call to attentiveness, watchfulness and preparedness for whatever proclaiming the Gospel may mean for us as successors of the Apostles, who were called to give radical witness to their faith in Jesus Christ.”
I received a degree in Philosophy and in Theology from the Angelicum: The Pontifical University of Saint Thomas Aquinas, Rome, Italy, from 1983 to 1989.
I also have a BA in Mathematics from UCLA, 1974.
That is amazing, since protestants base their whole belief in “I think” for each individual, since protestants have no source of the objective truth of God. For protestants, each person, in a sense is God, since each protestant is believed to be infallible in his interpretation of truth!!!
Are you saying that only blogs that are controlled by the super-rich are reliable?
This is also amazing to me, since you as a protestant believe that every Christian is infallible, and yet you say what is written on a blog of a Christian is not reliable since it does not have the acclaim of those who control the world and the mainstream media who are leading us the the worst dictatorship in the history of the world!!!
Council of Trent: non-Roman Catholics are heretics.
Vatican 1: non-Roman Catholics are heretics.
Vatican II: non-Roman Catholics are separated brethren.
Just a tad bit of a contradiction there and a substantial change in RC theology.
Argument over and I haven't even addressed the contradictions of the so called "canonized saints."
Your logic or implication is that all the women at least back to King David had to be perfect and without sin as was the mother of God.
In God’s divine providence, the parents of Mary, the Mother of God, were very holy, as was the spouse of Mary, Joseph.
It is amazing that you do not make the distinction between the Mother of Christ, and those who Christ loved and sought to lead to true repentance and salvation.
St. Thomas Aquinas tells us to: “Rarely affirm, seldom deny, ALWAYS DISTINGUISH.” Protestants never learned how to distinguish with logic in their divinity schools, just as Catholic priests and bishops no longer know how to distinguish between right and wrong, truth or non truth, since the Ecclesiastical Masonry infiltrated most Catholic seminaries more than 60 years ago with the help of many Masonic bishops and cardinals.
Except....Do we not have a right to take along a believing wife, even as the rest of the apostles and the brothers of the Lord and Cephas? 1 Corinthians 9:5 NASB
Note also Paul observes Jesus had brothers.
So much for the vaunted "apostolic tradition" claimed by Rome. Shown to be bogus yet again.
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