[BroJoeK]

FLT-bird quoting: "Davis . . . possessed the authority to suspend the writ of habeas corpus for a total of only sixteen months.
During most of that time he exercised this power more sparingly than did his counterpart in Washington.
The rhetoric of southern libertarians about executive tyranny thus seems overblown." (McPherson, The Battle Cry of Freedom, p. 435)"

Other historians disagree:

"Civil War historian Mark E. Neely Jr. suggests that "there seems to be no difference in the arrest rate in those periods when the Confederate Congress refuse to authorization suspension of the writ of habeas corpus and those periods was authorized. ... civilian prisoners trickled into Confederate military prisons whether the writ of habeas corpus was suspended or not."[41]""

FLT-bird: "The Tyrant Lincoln imprisoned somewhere between 13,000 and 38,000 people often without charge or trial - or with "trial" only before military tribunals."

While the "tyrant" Jefferson Davis imprisoned no fewer than 2,687 Southerners with or without suspension of habeas corpus.
If we allow for a number of missing Confederate records, these percentages are relatively the same when compared to Union or Confederate populations.

FLT-bird: "Neither side made any formal declaration of war in the Civil War.
The Confederacy did not declare war on the U.S. - it took control of federal property and demanded the evacuation of Fort Sumter.
It made clear its intent to fight defensively - to defend its sovereignty."

I gave you the link, you can read it yourself, there was an actual Confederate congress Declaration of War on May 6, 1861.
Prior to Confederate Declaration of War, there was no Union "invasion" of the Confederacy and after the declaration, every Union citizen who gave "aid and comfort" to Confederates was guilty, by Constitution's definition, of treason.

FLT-bird quoting: " 'If you bring these [Confederate] leaders to trial it will condemn the North, for by the Constitution secession is not rebellion.
Lincoln wanted Davis to escape, and he was right.
His capture was a mistake.
His trial will be a greater one.'
Chief Justice Salmon P. Chase, July 1867 (Foote, The Civil War, Vol. 3, p. 765)"

Chase's argument here is spurious, specious and politically motivated, though after the war was over, perhaps for the best.
Chase's key nonsense is in claiming, "secession is not rebellion", since it was not secession alone which caused Civil War, but rather secession mixed with rebellion -- the Confederate assault on Fort Sumter -- which turned a political argument into a military war.
And after the Confederate Declaration of War on May 6, 1861, the entire issue was mute.

FLT-bird: "the Chief justice of the SCOTUS ruled that way in ex parte Merryman and Habeas Corpus may in any event only be suspended by Congress - not unilaterally by the President and not when the courts are functioning.
This was just Lincoln acting as an unconstitutional tyrant again."

Naw, it wasn't a SCOTUS ruling, it was only Crazy-Roger Taney babbling nonsense as a circuit court judge.
SCOTUS never ruled on it during the war.

FLT-bird: "Its easy to say that....if you want to lie.
The arrests in the Union vary between 13,000 at a low end and 38,000 at the high end.
And don't pretend dissenters weren't simply dragooned into the Union army.
So you can forget about that little dodge."

This source says:

" Even so, the lowest estimate is 13,535 arrests from February 15, 1862, to the end of the war. [3]
At least 866 others occurred from the beginning of the war until February 15, 1862.
Therefore, at least 14,401 civilians were arrested by the Lincoln administration.
If one takes the population of the North during the Civil War as 22.5 million (using the 1860 census and counting West Virginia but not Nevada), then one person out of every 1,563 in the North was arrested during the Civil War.[4]"

Do the math for Confederate arrests and the results come out pretty much the same.

FLT-bird on alleged arrest warrant for Crazy-Roger: "Nah.
Lincoln did it and people other than Taney knew about it.
You just don't want to admit it because its inconvenient for you."

So you repeatedly claim, but without ever providing a verifiable primary source for your claims.

FLT-bird quoting: "over 100 opposition Newspapers.
He even ordered the Army to shut down some of them by military force."

And what about the others?
The answer is, he didn't shut them down.
They remained free to continue publishing.

The US Post Office, however, did not deliver their treasonous materials.
Nor is there any evidence of Confederate authorities ever allowing publishers treasonous to them to operate.

FLT-bird referring to the arrest and trial of Ohio Democrat Congressman Vallandingham: "Which is blatantly unconstitutional."

Not at the time.

FLT-bird "Confederate Mound in Chicago is the largest mass grave in the entire western hemisphere."

The numbers of dead only exceeded, perhaps, by those at Andersonville, Georgia.
Worth noticing that Andersonville's death toll of 13,000 happened over just 15 months of operation, or nearly 900 per month on average.
By contrast, at Camp Douglas, the official death toll of 4,415 happened over 39 months of operation, or just over 100 per month average.
So, even if we contemplate your higher speculation of 6,000 total deaths, it's still just 150 per month, compared to nearly 900 per month at Andersonville, Georgia.

FLT-bird quoting: "The death rate of prisoners at Camp Douglas was lower than at Andersonville and the conditions at Camp Douglas were better.[44]

"You get to this lie, ONLY if you believe the systematic undercounting of deaths at Camp Douglas."

Nooooo... even if we contemplate your alleged 6,000 Confederate POW deaths at Camp Douglas, that is still only around 150 per month over 39 months from February 1862 through May 1865.
At Andersonville Union prisoner deaths averaged nearly 900 per month for 15 months = 13,000 total.

FLT-bird on Minnesota Native Americans: "And yet this does nothing to refute the historical record of treaty violations, deliberate starvation, ethnic cleansing and mass murder committed by the Lincoln administration."

There is no evidence the "Lincoln administration" committed any crime against Minnesota Native Americans.
The root cause appears to be a two-month delay in Federal payments to reservation Indians, possibly from corrupt agents, accompanied by local merchants' refusal to extend credit to starving Indians.
Nothing in the tragic events there suggest that Lincoln was somehow personally responsible.

If you want a rough equivalency, we could personally blame Jefferson Davis for the Lawrence, Kansas massacre in August, 1863.
What sense would that make?

[FLT-bird]

Other historians disagree: "Civil War historian Mark E. Neely Jr. suggests that "there seems to be no difference in the arrest rate in those periods when the Confederate Congress refuse to authorization suspension of the writ of habeas corpus and those periods was authorized. ... civilian prisoners trickled into Confederate military prisons whether the writ of habeas corpus was suspended or not."[41]""

Mark Neely is a well known Lincoln apologist. Hell, McPherson is one of the major PC Revisionists in Academia. Got one from somebody credible saying that? I'm betting no.

While the "tyrant" Jefferson Davis imprisoned no fewer than 2,687 Southerners with or without suspension of habeas corpus.

Yes, some clearly were arrested under the same circumstances in the CSA. Still, it was far fewer than in the Union.

If we allow for a number of missing Confederate records, these percentages are relatively the same when compared to Union or Confederate populations.

Translation: If we just make up a bunch of BS I have no evidence for..........."

I gave you the link, you can read it yourself, there was an actual Confederate congress Declaration of War on May 6, 1861.

No they didn't. I gave you a link.

Prior to Confederate Declaration of War, there was no Union "invasion" of the Confederacy and after the declaration, every Union citizen who gave "aid and comfort" to Confederates was guilty, by Constitution's definition, of treason.,/p>

There was no Confederate Declaration of War and as even Lincoln's treasure secretary and later Chief Justice of the Supreme Court admitted, secession is not treason.

Chase's argument here is spurious, specious and politically motivated, though after the war was over, perhaps for the best. Chase's key nonsense is in claiming, "secession is not rebellion", since it was not secession alone which caused Civil War, but rather secession mixed with rebellion -- the Confederate assault on Fort Sumter -- which turned a political argument into a military war. And after the Confederate Declaration of War on May 6, 1861, the entire issue was mute.

You are spewing BS here. Secession is not treason. Every state has the right to secede. There was no Confederate Declaration of War.

Naw, it wasn't a SCOTUS ruling, it was only Crazy-Roger Taney babbling nonsense as a circuit court judge. SCOTUS never ruled on it during the war.

LOL! Every Supreme Court Justice who doesn't rule the way you like has bad reasoning, is crazy, etc etc according to you.

This source says: " Even so, the lowest estimate is 13,535 arrests from February 15, 1862, to the end of the war. [3] At least 866 others occurred from the beginning of the war until February 15, 1862. Therefore, at least 14,401 civilians were arrested by the Lincoln administration.

That's at the extremely low end of the estimates. The estimates run from 13,000 to 38,000.

If one takes the population of the North during the Civil War as 22.5 million (using the 1860 census and counting West Virginia but not Nevada), then one person out of every 1,563 in the North was arrested during the Civil War.[4]" Do the math for Confederate arrests and the results come out pretty much the same.

Only if one buys the extreme low estimate of jailed political dissenters in the Union that is most convenient for you.

So you repeatedly claim, but without ever providing a verifiable primary source for your claims.,/p>

I told you where you could find it.

And what about the others? The answer is, he didn't shut them down. They remained free to continue publishing.

LOL! He "only" censored 100. He's an icon of constitutional rights. (nevermind the chilling effect shutting down 100 in a country of 22.5 million would have)

The US Post Office, however, did not deliver their treasonous materials.

"treasonous" according to you is any disagreement with government policy.

Nor is there any evidence of Confederate authorities ever allowing publishers treasonous to them to operate.

There's no evidence of the CSA's government shutting down and censoring a bunch of newspapers.

Not at the time.

Yes at the time and any time after the Bill of Rights was ratified.

The numbers of dead only exceeded, perhaps, by those at Andersonville, Georgia. Worth noticing that Andersonville's death toll of 13,000 happened over just 15 months of operation, or nearly 900 per month on average. By contrast, at Camp Douglas, the official death toll of 4,415 happened over 39 months of operation, or just over 100 per month average. So, even if we contemplate your higher speculation of 6,000 total deaths, it's still just 150 per month, compared to nearly 900 per month at Andersonville, Georgia.

Its not my speculation. Even the Chicago paper published that 1500 names of Confederate Prisoners who were enrolled at Camp Douglas but who were never released from there and who were not officially reported as having died. Gee, they disappeared. What does anybody think happened to them?

Furthermore there was no deliberate cruelty and murder on the anything like the scale of Camp Douglas at Andersonville.

Furthermore, there was no shortage of food or medicine in the Union as there was in the CSA. The Union prisoners at Andersonville were not denied food out of cruelty. Famine stalked the land and some of the guards starved too.

As for the treatment of POW's as a whole: 26,436 Confederates died in Northern prisons and 22,576 Union soldiers died in Southern prisons. Considering the fact that the South held approximately fifty thousand more prisoners, the death rate in Northern prisons was about twelve percent whereas the death rate in Southern prisons was roughly eight percent. Again, there was no shortage of food and medicine in the Union. The deaths of POWs there were deliberate.

There is no evidence the "Lincoln administration" committed any crime against Minnesota Native Americans.

outright lie.

The root cause appears to be a two-month delay in Federal payments to reservation Indians, possibly from corrupt agents, accompanied by local merchants' refusal to extend credit to starving Indians. Nothing in the tragic events there suggest that Lincoln was somehow personally responsible.

More lies. The Lincoln administration refused to pay them the money they were owed so they could buy food after they were starved because UF federal government agents were corrupt and stole the food provided to them. The "trials" given to those publicly hanged were a mockery. The tribes were then ethnically cleansed and some were deliberately starved again.

If you want a rough equivalency, we could personally blame Jefferson Davis for the Lawrence, Kansas massacre in August, 1863. What sense would that make?

No we couldn't. Davis didn't have control over the Missouri Guerillas AND the raid on Lawrence Kansas was retaliation for the Kansas Redlegs' sacking of Osceola, Missouri first.