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To: FLT-bird; jmacusa; x; ProgressingAmerica; DiogenesLamp
FLT-bird: "Yes, we know Lincoln started it - deliberately.
He sent a fleet of heavily armed warships which invaded South Carolina's sovereign territory."

Noooooo.
There was no "fleet" in Charleston Harbor on April 11, there was only one small ship -- the Revenue Cutter USRC Harriet Lane arrived late in the day and never got anywhere close to "South Carolina's sovereign territory".

Jefferson Davis himself confessed he had no need to wait for a Union provocation, since:

So, regardless of endless Lost Causer lies about this, Jefferson Davis himself confessed he didn't need to wait for Lincoln to provide him a pretext to start war at both Forts Sumter and Pickens.

114 posted on 02/14/2024 3:40:30 AM PST by BroJoeK (future DDG 134 -- we remember)
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To: BroJoeK
I see we have the usual PC Revisionist lies repeated once again. OK. Let's go through it again.

The fleet of warships consisted of:

The steam sloop-of-war USS Pawnee, 181 officers and enlisted Armament: • 8 × 9 in guns, • 2 × 12-pounder guns

USS Powhatan, 289 officers and enlisted Armament: • 1 × 11 in (280 mm) Dahlgren smoothbore gun, 10 × 9 in (230 mm) Dahlgren smoothbore guns • 5 × 12-pounder guns, also transporting steam launches and about 300 sailors (besides the crew, these to be used to augment Army troops)

Armed screw steamer USS Pocahontas, 150 officers and men (approx.) 4 × 32-pounder guns, 1 × 10-pounder gun, 1 × 20-pounder Parrot rifle

The Revenue Cutter USS Harriet Lane, 95 officers and men Armament: 1 x 4in gun, 1 x 9in gun, 2 x 8in guns, 2 x 24 lb brass howitzers

The steamer Baltic transporting about 200 troops, composed of companies C and D of the 2nd U.S. Artillery, and three hired tug boats with added protection against small arms fire to be used to tow troop and supply barges directly to Fort Sumter (or some other point since it is inconceivable that they would be taking small arms fire from a union held fortification)

Totals

4 war ships

4 transports

38 heavy guns

1200 military personnel (at least 500 of whom were to be used as a landing party)

"Lincoln and the First Shot" (in Reassessing the Presidency, edited by John Denson), John Denson painstakingly shows how Lincoln maneuvered the Confederates into firing the first shot at Fort Sumter. As the Providence Daily Post wrote on April 13, 1861, "Mr. Lincoln saw an opportunity to inaugurate civil war without appearing in the character of an aggressor" by reprovisioning Fort Sumter. On the day before that the Jersey City American Statesman wrote that "This unarmed vessel, it is well understood, is a mere decoy to draw the first fire from the people of the South." Lincoln's personal secretaries, John Nicolay and John Hay, clearly stated after the war that Lincoln successfully duped the Confederates into firing on Fort Sumter. And as Shelby Foote wrote in The Civil War, "Lincoln had maneuvered [the Confederates] into the position of having either to back down on their threats or else to fire the first shot of the war."

Here is Lincoln's Letter congratulating his naval commander, Fox for having started the war Lincoln wanted:

"May 1st, 1861. Washington Capt. G.V. Fox:

My Dear Sir, I sincerely regret that the failure of the late attempt to provision Fort Sumter should be the source of any annoyance to you. The practicability of your plan was not, in fact, brought to a test. By reason of a gale, well known in advance to be possible, and not improbable, the tugs, an essential part of the plan, never reached the ground ; while, by an accident, for which you were in nowise responsible, and possibly I, to some extent, was, you were deprived of a war-vessel, with her men, which you deemed of great importance to the enterprise.

I most cheerfully and truthfully declare that the failure of the undertaking has not lowered you a particle, while the qualities you developed in the effort have greatly heightened you in my estimation. For a daring and dangerous enterprise of a similar character, you would, to-day, be the man of all my acquaintances whom I would select. You and I both anticipated that the cause of the country would be advanced by making the attempt to provision Fort Sumter, even if it should fail ; and it is no small consolation now to feel that our anticipation is justified by the result. Very truly your friend, A. LINCOLN."

Lincoln sent a fleet of heavily armed warships to invade South Carolina's sovereign territory which it duly did. This forced the CSA to either defend itself by opening fire or to allow itself to be invaded without firing a shot in its own defense. The Confederates did what any other country would do upon being invaded - they fired to drive the invaders away. An aggressor is one who invades the land of another - not one who fires to drive an invader away.

116 posted on 02/14/2024 4:20:30 AM PST by FLT-bird
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To: BroJoeK
Noooooo. There was no "fleet" in Charleston Harbor on April 11, there was only one small ship -- the Revenue Cutter USRC Harriet Lane arrived late in the day and never got anywhere close to "South Carolina's sovereign territory".

Don't be dishonest.

You know, or ought to know, given how many times i've covered this, that the fleet consisted of several ships, most of which were warships.

Those ships were:

Powhatan, the command ship, led by Captain Mercer.
Pocahontas,
Pawnee,
Harriet Lane,
Yankee,
Baltic, acting as a troop carrier and loaded with troops and munitions,
Thomas Freeborn,
Uncle Ben

The ships orders were sent to the Confederates, and they knew exactly what those ships orders said. "If resisted, Use Entire Force..." and they looked at it as an attack, which is exactly how Lincoln wanted them to see it.

So yes. WAR FLEET. SENT TO ATTACK.

Proved.

135 posted on 02/14/2024 2:58:07 PM PST by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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