HERETIC!!!
Posted on 06/28/2023 4:27:11 AM PDT by RaceBannon
I've posted plenty of Catholic writings here today.
Stuff from your chosen religion's early church fathers; even teaching from your very own catechism.
Are you trying to tell me that THOSE writings are wrong?!?
Yup; his stuff really puts a cork in the current Roman claim of Peter being the rock.
HMMMmmm...
The following quotations from the Church Fathers give the straight story. They show that the early Church held the same position on this as the contemporary Church does—that is, whereas it is normatively necessary to be a Catholic to be saved (see CCC 846; Vatican II, Lumen Gentium 14), it is possible in some circumstances for people to be saved who have not been fully initiated into the Catholic Church (CCC 847).
Notice that the same Fathers who declare the normative necessity of being Catholic also declare the possibility of salvation for some who are not Catholics.
These can be saved by what later came to be known as “baptism of blood” or ” baptism of desire” (for more on this subject, see the Fathers Know Best tract, The Necessity of Baptism).
The Fathers likewise affirm the possibility of salvation for those who lived before Christ and who were not part of Israel, the Old Testament People of God.
However, for those who knowingly and deliberately (that is, not out of ignorance) commit the sins of heresy (rejecting divinely revealed doctrine) or schism (separating from the Catholic Church and/or joining a schismatic church), no salvation would be possible until they repented and returned to live in Catholic unity.
What the Early Church Believed: Salvation Outside the Church | Catholic Answers
I know definitely that it’s 37!
Or SALVATION; either!!!
Anselm: It suffices, O Lady, that thou willest it, and our SALVATION is certain.
Antoninus: …souls protected by Mary, and on which she casts her eyes, are NECESSARILY JUSTIFIED AND SAVED.
Athanasius: …And, thou, O Lady, wast filled with grace, that thou mightiest be the way of our SALVATION and the means of ascent to the heavenly Kingdom.
Bonaventure: …the gates of heaven will open to all who confide in the protection of Mary. Blessed are they who know thee, O Mother of God, for the knowledge of THEE is the high road to everlasting life, and the publication of thy virtues is the way of ETERNAL SALVATION . Give ear, O ye nations; and all you who desire heaven , serve, honor Mary, and certainly you will find ETERNAL LIFE.
She says, "He that shall find Me shall find life, and shall have salvation from the Lord. "Qui me invenerit, inveniet vitam, et hauriet salutem a Domino."
Listen," exclaims St. Bonaventure on these words, "listen, all you who desire the kingdom of God: honor the most Blessed Virgin Mary, and you will find life and eternal salvation." "Audite qui ingredi cupitis regnum Dei: Virginem Mariam honorate, et invenietis vitam et salutem perpetuam."-psalt. B.V.ps.48.
Guerric: …he who serves Mary and for whom she intercedes, is as CERTAIN of heaven as if he were already there…and those who DO NOT serve Mary will NOT BE SAVED.
“The Catholic Church has always and with justice put all her hope and trust in the Mother of God.”
(Leo XIII: Encyclical, Supreme Apostolatus, September 1, 1883.) — [p. 32, no. 104]
"Only She Can Help You"
by Father Nicholas Gruner, S.T.L., S.T.D. (Cand.)
In this letter introducing The Fatima Crusader Issue 38, Father Gruner discusses the growing lies and deception about Russia's errors and the consecration of that nation. He also reminds us that, while it is urgent that we be informed about and fight for Our Lady's cause, we must ask for Her help and intercession.
Mary Leads Her Servants to Heaven
by St. Alphonsus de Liguori
In this article taken from The Glories of Mary, Saint Alphonsus explains that there are countless souls in Heaven who are there now only because Mary, by Her powerful intercession, led them there. If a soul persists in true devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary, She will certainly lead that soul to Heaven.
The Rosary
by Father Stefano Manelli, S.T.D.
It is greatly important that Our Lady insisted on the Rosary. When at Fatima She spoke of the salvation of sinners, of the ruin of souls in hell, of wars and peace, and of the future of our age. Our Lady indicated and recommended the Rosary as the prayer that saves, that brings peace, that preserves the faith.
Mary, Our Life, Our Sweetness, Our Hope
by St. Alphonsus de Liguori
St. Alphonsus de Liguori explains how Mary is our life, how She is our sweetness, and how She is our hope.
The historical record of the worship of Mary accumulated by St. Alphonsus de Liguori who wrote “The Glories of Mary” in the year 1745, which has been since translated into English and printed again and again and again with the full affirmation and imprimatur of the official Roman Catholic Church. In this book there is the sum of all the glories of Mary which has been vouchsafe to the Roman Catholic Church and the Church itself calls upon all its constituents to give Mary that honor she is due. She is identified as Mary, our Queen; Mary, our mother; Mary, our life; Mary, our sweetness; Mary, our hope; Mary, our help; Mary, our Mediatress; Mary, our advocate; Mary, our guardian; and Mary, our salvation. It is said that Mary delivers us from hell, Mary delivers us from purgatory, and Mary leads us to heaven. And it should be said that de Liguori, who collected all the Marion dogma and devotion, was himself one of the most celebrated and revered authorities in the Roman Catholic Church. De Liguori was himself a cardinal in life, and a saint in death.
Jesus said "Without Me you can do nothing". In this crisis which looms ahead of us, Our Lady has told us that we need Her help, Her intercession. We must ask for Her help with the Rosary and the Scapular.
At Fatima, Our Lady told us very plainly that "Only I can help you". Today more than ever is this so true.
Pray the Rosary and sacrifice yourself for Our Lady.
Jesus and Mary — Our Hope
It is so urgent that we reach as many souls as possible before it is too late. Let us be of good cheer and remember the words of Jesus to each of us, "It's never too late to have recourse to Jesus and Mary." That is why it is so important to reach the many millions of souls who do not know this, and who do not know the grave dangers lying in wait for their souls.
No, we must never lose hope. Mary is our hope. She can obtain for us what we cannot by ourselves. Read what St. Alphonsus has to say regarding confidence in Our Lady's intercession in "Mary Leads Her Servants to Heaven". Father Manelli also reminds us of the importance of devotion to Our Lady. (See "Hail Mary, Full of Grace"). Our Blessed Mother tells us to turn to Her in confidence. She tells us repeatedly to ask Her intercession through the frequent fervent praying of the Rosary. (See "The Rosary"). She tells us we must pray the Rosary every day. She wants us to pray it many times a day.
http://fatima.org/crusader/cr38/cr38pg2.asp
O, how many blessed souls are now in Heaven who would never have been there had not Mary, by Her powerful intercession, led them thither. I made that in the heavens there should rise light that never faileth. Cardinal Hugo, in his commentary on the above text of Ecclesiasticus, says in the name of Mary, "I have caused as many saints in Heaven through Her intercession, who would never have been there but through Her ."
...in the words of St. Ambrose, "Open to us, O Mary, the gates of paradise, since Thou hast its keys." "Aperi nobis, O Virgo coelum, cujus claves habes." Nay more, the Church says, that "Thou art its gate."
23. "Coeleste nobis regnum, suo interventu auxiliis, et precibus, impetravit."—Paciucch. Sup. Salve Reg. exc. I.
24. "Qui Virgini famulatur, ita securus est de paradiso, ac si esset in paradiso."
25. "Summus honor, servire Mariæ, et de ejus esse familia; etenim ei servire, regnare est; et ejus agi frænis, summa libertas."
26. "Gens quæ non servierit illi, peribit; gentes destitutæ tantæ Matris auxilio, destituuntur auxilio Filii et totius curi’ coelestis."— De Laud. B. M. I. 4.
St. Antoninus tells us "that this divine Mother has already, by Her assistance and prayers, obtained Heaven for us, provided we put no obstacle in the way."23
Hence, says Abbot Guerric, "he who serves Mary, and for whom She intercedes, is as certain of Heaven as if he was already there."24
St. John Damascene also says, "that to serve Mary and be Her courtier is the greatest honor we can possibly possess; for to serve the Queen of Heaven is already to reign there, and live under Her commands is more than to govern."25
On the other hand, he adds, "that those who do not serve Mary will not be saved; for those who are deprived of the help of this great Mother are also deprived of that of Her Son and of the whole court of heaven."26
Cardinal Hugo http://fatima.org/crusader/cr38/cr38pg3.asp
...or directly written in machine code.
“Perhaps you should go back and reread your post, you literally tell me you did not quote any books (posting a link to books is quoting them) then you go on to tell me to read the books for my answer to the question I posed.”
I posted two links. I did not quote (i.e. list a passage from the book) nor did I cite a book by it’s title. Thus, you’re still wrong. Learn the actual meaning of words. Here, you’ll see I didn’t quote according to the common usage of the word “quote”: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/quoting
“See the problem there?”
The problem is that you know even less about English than you do the Bible. Keep failing.
Oh and even if we limit it to only a transitive verb, your own link states
: to cite in illustration
Posting those books was very much citing the books as an illustration of the point you were making.
If you disagree here is your preferred word source giving the definition of citing
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/citing
So tell me again how I was wrong? Or at least explain what you meant when you blind-posted book links in response to my post. How were you not using those links as a reference to support your point of view?
I haven't read where anyone has done that on this thread. I think the REAL issue is that Roman Catholicism has used that dogma of "special" Petrine authority to insist that all her subsequent Popes ALSO have that special authority handed down to them -- and no other churches do. This dogma has been used by them to condemn, persecute and annihilate other Christian faith traditions while exalting herself as the "one, true church established by Jesus Christ" even in the face of the evil she has perpetrated over the centuries not to mention her heretical teachings.
The one, true church established by Jesus Christ is the called-out assembly throughout the ages of all genuinely born-again believers in Christ who are save by His grace through faith and not by works. At one time the catholic church (small "c") meant the universal one -- the spiritual house Peter spoke of built up of believers who are each as living stones (I Peter 2:5) and, yes, even some Roman Catholics are in there, too.
Let me ask you as a sincere Protestant, have you truly been exposed to the truth of the Catholic Church? Have you studied the Catechism? History, etc. To make an informed decision? I think, like me when I 2as a Protestant, you have a vague idea and much misunderstanding of the Catholic Church and frankly Jesus’ teachings and 5radition. You haven’t truly knowingly rejected Jesus and His church...you reject by misunderstanding. Catholic Theology believes you have have the ability for salvation. I’m sure you’re baptized, which you may not know, but as long as it 8s done properly ( most Protestant baptisms are) the Catholic Church recognizes that baptism. I’m a good example, I was baptized in z Baptist church when I was 12...so, I did not get baptized again when I became Catholic. I went through the second part of baptism...Confirmation...where I declare my fidelity to Jesus Christ.
Unfortunately, like the Bible it takes so much study to fully understand the Catholic Theology.
Then, to make matters worse...because we are made up 9f humans we are fallible...even the Pope except in very rare occurrences. Satan has attacked the Catholic Church from day one. The link you provided discussed that...I didn’t care fore the expanse of knowledge just glossed over quickly. That was written for very educated theologians as historical summarization I think.
The early Church fathers were talking about real heretics who knowingly understood but rejected Jesus teachings. Remember, they were much closer to the “souce” back then than you are two thousand years later.
There is a series about the many heresies ( ones that were actual movements) that I am watching. It’s interesting. Some were so influential the Church would hold Councils...it is from one of these we get the Niocene creed...or, apostles creed...these councils bring the church fully back in line to truth. The creeds are statements of what is truth.
Here is a link about councils... https://www.catholicbridge.com/catholic/21-catholic-councils.php
You may want to consider checking out EWTN 9n TV, radio, or online. Lots of great educational shows. EWTN was started by a nun who had no experience in media, Mother Angelica. She began it in a garage and by God’s grace created a multi media empire that reaches over 400 million people each week. It’s a fantastic example of modern miracle. Try it...
Let me ask you as a sincere Catholic, have you truly been exposed to the truth of the Bible; without the spin placed on it by Rome?
“St Augustine
Yup; his stuff really puts a cork in the current Roman claim of Peter being the rock.”
What do you mean? He states Jesus passed the earthly reins to Peter ( rock). Did you know that St Peter’s tomb was finally found last century? It was located under the Basillica in Rome. Indeed Jesus was literal as well as metaphorical.
I assume by Rome you are using that as a slur against the Catholic Church who actually produced and maintained the Bible. Unfortunately for you you have never read large parts of the bible...yours is an incomplete version. The shortened partial Bible you read is from the Catholic. Let me ask you something, how can you believe the Bible was divinely created then after 1500 years some guy comes along corrects God by removing part of it yet you don’t believe those removed parts are divinely created? Either the Bible was created divinely or it was not...you cannot have it both ways and pretend to have truth.
“Well; at LEAST you picked a number from somewhere near the middle.
We’ve seen 25,00 - 39,000 - 50,000 - even 80,000!”
That’s because new Protestant variations are discovered constantly, especially of late...haven’t you noticed?
CBNwas not started by a nun who had no experience in media. It’s a fantastic example of modern miracle. Try it...
And the only words about Mary are:
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.
Nicene creed
I believe in God,
the Father almighty,
Creator of heaven and earth,
and in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died and was buried;
he descended into hell;
on the third day he rose again from the dead;
he ascended into heaven,
and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty;
from there he will come to judge the living and the dead.Apostles creed
That's some mighty fine record keeping!
You're really not appealing to this failed argument....are you??
Which of the 24 Catholic denominations is the right one??
The first question I asked the priest that gave me classes in Catholic theology (you have to know a certain amount before you can be confirmed), was if the Catholic church believes that protestants cannot go to heaven then I will not join! I was assured that that was not the case.
Your priest misled you in that case. We've been told there is no salvation for those who don't submit to the pope.
We've also been told we have to go through Mary for salvation and believe in the Marian dogmas....among other things.
Just based on those two things your priest was in error.
Kinda makes you wonder what else he might be wrong about.
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