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Peter is NOT the Rock of Matthew 16
self | 6/28/23 | self

Posted on 06/28/2023 4:27:11 AM PDT by RaceBannon

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To: metmom

And we haven’t touched on the issues with Rome’s version of Mary.


281 posted on 06/29/2023 8:49:54 AM PDT by ealgeone
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To: Elsie

No, you are the one misinformed...you have very little knowledge of the Catholic Church other than protestant misunderstanding probably. If you did have knowledge you would know what I said was accurate.


282 posted on 06/29/2023 9:05:44 AM PDT by Wpin ("I Have Sworn Upon the Altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny...")
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To: Elsie

LOL, I think you are really poorly misinformed about Christian history dear. Most of your beliefs that differ from truth are derived from Luther and then of course Sola Scriptura which Luther which has resulted in over 40,000 variations in theology with different Protestant denominations and then of course with the self interpretation each individual has and thinks is legit when they barely understand the bible and have no real knowledge of tradition. If you really are interested in learning about God and Christian history I suggest reading Catholic writings...which talk about tradition and of course the truly deep theology and reason from writers such as St Thomas Acquinis, St Augustine, St Francis, etc. You can even read writings from the first generation of apostles and disciples after the originals...there is so much Catholic history you have never seen which dates right to when Jesus walked the earth and beyond. It will open your understanding and amaze you in it’s perfect complexity. I am a convert and the difference is Protestant theology is generally speaking like grade school and Catholic theology is like doctorate level. It will amaze you. Indeed, the contributions to science and the development of the scientific method by Catholics would amaze you...ever hear of Big Bang Theory...catholic dear... and much much more.


283 posted on 06/29/2023 9:44:08 AM PDT by Wpin ("I Have Sworn Upon the Altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny...")
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To: Wpin; Elsie; daniel1212; aMorePerfectUnion; kinsman redeemer
Luther, it’s called Sola Scriptura...created 1,500 years after Jesus died on the cross.

Hogwash.

Acts 17:10-11 The brothers immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea, and when they arrived they went into the Jewish synagogue. Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so.

People were commended from the days of the apostles themselves for comparing teaching, even the teaching of one of the apostles, to Scripture by themselves to see if what Paul was teaching was so.

God did not create Scripture to be a mystery to us. He made it easy to understand. All one has to do is read it.

The only reason that organizations like Catholicism obsess over *interpretation* and like to pretend that it's hard to understand is because they want to make it mean something besides what it says. Therefore, they have to make sure that someone (IOW, their own people) *correctly interprets* the Scripture to make it mean something other than what it says, or rather what the Catholic church wants it to say.

284 posted on 06/29/2023 9:49:09 AM PDT by metmom (He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!)
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To: Elsie

Mary inspired NONE of Scripture.


285 posted on 06/29/2023 9:50:17 AM PDT by metmom (He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!)
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To: metmom

So which of the over 40,000 variations with protestant denominations is correct then? And, which of the millions of individual protestant variations?

It is “easy” to understand the basics...it is taught by the Catholic Church. The more in depth stuff is not easy for anyone. The bible and tradition are very very deep and broad. It takes many years to get truly knowledgeable.

Just so you know having said all that I have great respect and love for our protestant brethren. I was raised and lived most of my life as protestant. I am a former Baptist and proud of it. The first question I asked the priest that gave me classes in Catholic theology (you have to know a certain amount before you can be confirmed), was if the Catholic church believes that protestants cannot go to heaven then I will not join! I was assured that that was not the case. Later I was watching a Catholic station (EWTN) and Father Pacwa was interviewing an author and the subject came up. Father Pacwa related a story about a priest who preached that protestants go to hell...he was warned several times then was defrocked...Father Pacwa stated that now that former priest hopes he was wrong...lol.


286 posted on 06/29/2023 10:00:08 AM PDT by Wpin ("I Have Sworn Upon the Altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny...")
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To: RaceBannon
if the greek is not fully inspired by God Himself ...
Where in the Greek NT did God unambiguously inspire the noun πέτρος (m) -- or any form thereof -- to be used as anything other than a proper name?
287 posted on 06/29/2023 10:28:50 AM PDT by eastsider
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To: Wpin

Pretty sure you managed to include every:

🔲 falsehood
🔲 trope
🔲 talking point

🏆


288 posted on 06/29/2023 11:45:09 AM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion (Fraud vitiates everything)
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To: metmom

“42!”


289 posted on 06/29/2023 12:27:17 PM PDT by grey_whiskers ( The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion
—> Something fun to ponder is how much of the New Testament came from the Holy Mother, Mary.

All of it.

Without Jesus, no New Testament. Without Mary, no incarnation. 😁

290 posted on 06/29/2023 12:31:53 PM PDT by grey_whiskers ( The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: RaceBannon

So if the Bible wasn’t compiled, it must have been...
wait for it...
interpreted.
💻
🤭


291 posted on 06/29/2023 12:34:28 PM PDT by grey_whiskers ( The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: Wpin
So which of the over 40,000 variations with protestant denominations is correct then? And, which of the millions of individual protestant variations?

That lie has been laid to rest so many times over that it's not even funny and for two reasons.

One is that there is not a different *interpretation* for every church that someone decides to label a denomination. Most churches agree on the basics of salvation and not every difference is a matter of salvation.

There are issues which make no difference. Nor does the number of different denominations mean that we are at odds with each other.

Additionally, Catholicism can hardly lay claim to be unified in doctrine and theology and Scriptural interpretation.

Rome and the EO have been in schism for over a thousand years with both claiming to be the true church that Christ founded and the other in error, way before Protestantism came on the scene.

Nor is Catholicism unified today. There are many *rites*, which have no more difference between them than many, if not most Protestant churches. Not to mention the wide variation in beliefs the congregants choose to accept or reject.

Also, the only religions who claim to have a monopoly on the truth are other cults besides Catholicism.

Virtually all those alleged denominations you claim are out there, recognize the truth of SCRIPTURE, and do not claim that they are the only One True Church, as Catholicism does. They do not claim to be the only source of Truth and label others as heretics and damn them to hell like Catholicism does for not agreeing with them.

And about the syncretism that infests Catholicism as in Haiti, the Philippines, and other impoverished, third world, mostly Catholic countries.

The interpretations of Scripture exhibited by lay Catholics is about 1.2 billion and counting.

It's easy to understand the basics of Scripture. The Catechism just makes things far more complicated, along with all the other *interpretations Catholicism puts forth to explain why they either don't have to obey Jesus, or that Scripture doesn't means what it says, it means what the Catholic church says it means.

292 posted on 06/29/2023 12:47:22 PM PDT by metmom (He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!)
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To: grey_whiskers

Which is abject nonsense. God didn’t not have other options.

Of course, Mary didn’t have a choice so she couldn’t have thwarted God’s plan so nothing hinges on her.


293 posted on 06/29/2023 12:49:20 PM PDT by metmom (He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!)
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To: grey_whiskers

—> Without Jesus, no New Testament. Without Mary, no incarnation.

Once you’ve gone there, you could name another hundred things…

But none could stop God’s plan.


294 posted on 06/29/2023 12:58:10 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion (Fraud vitiates everything)
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To: RaceBannon
The distinction being made between Πέτρος and πέτρα is simply not strong enough to uncouple them from one another in Mt 16:18:

(1) No such distinction can be found in the Greek NT because Πέτρος is never used in the Greek NT as anything other than a Proper Noun.

(2) The use of πέτρα in the Greek NT is inconsistent, ranging in meaning from solid bedrock/foundation (Mt 7:25 - τὴν πέτραν) to a mere rock in the road to stumble over (1 Pet 2:8 - πέτρα σκανδάλου).

(3) In the context of Mt 16:18, πέτρᾳ is immediately preceded by the demonstrative adjective ταύτῃ (this). The only word nearby πέτρᾳ that ταύτῃ could reasonably be pointing to is the word that shares the the same base (i.e., Πέτρ-), namely Πέτρος.

295 posted on 06/29/2023 1:06:09 PM PDT by eastsider
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To: RaceBannon

Anyone can find them.

You just need an open mind.


296 posted on 06/29/2023 2:00:49 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: beancounter13
What I am trying to defend are the 8 simple words that this thread was trying to dance around and rework.

If you'd only placed your 8 selected words in context, you'd not have any trouble getting folks to play with you.

297 posted on 06/29/2023 2:02:03 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Wpin
No, you are the one misinformed...you have very little knowledge of the Catholic Church other than protestant misunderstanding probably.

If I am mis-informed. it's because Rome's output is confusing.

Are you REALLY this poorly catechized?

298 posted on 06/29/2023 2:03:49 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Wpin
Most of your beliefs that differ from truth are derived from Luther...

Golly!

I wasn't aware that Luther had written so much of the NT!

Thanks for informing me.

299 posted on 06/29/2023 2:05:01 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Wpin
resulted in over 40,000 variations in theology

Well; at LEAST you picked a number from somewhere near the middle.

We've seen 25,00 - 39,000 - 50,000 - even 80,000!

300 posted on 06/29/2023 2:06:42 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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