Posted on 02/28/2022 12:24:39 PM PST by Enlightened1
This was their decision. They knew when they signed the contract that situations like this might come up. And they chose to walk away. The military didn’t force them to walk.
___________________________________________
These useless ineffective drug mandates affect many groups.
Like the military, health care workers and truckers did not know when they signed a contract or accepted a position that situations like this might come up. Both of these groups as well as many workers (Verizon, Hershey, Tyson) are being forced out of their jobs, often with no benefits.
It is ironic that when these injections were introduced by the CDC, FDA, and Fauci, they were touted by the aforementioned and the pharma companies as vaccines/immunizations. They told the public these drugs would prevent people from getting COVID and they were safe and effective. And people thought they would only need 2 shots and they were done...We are now on Booster shot #2...And debating vaccinating 6 month old babies. Were these health officials and pharma overpromising or lying?
Both?
It has become apparent that none of what they promised is accurate or true.
These drugs are experimental because they did not do normal clinical trials testing. They are experimental because they had to redefine the definition of what is considered a vaccine. They classified these therapies as vaccines because they could claim indemnity. Reports are surfacing that the jabs do affect DNA, so yeah, it is gene therapy.
Given the breakthrough infections rate and natural immunity of Omicron, it is outrageous that the mandates are still in place. They are weakening our military, supply chain, and health care. Almost like someone wanted to weaken the country.
Suggesting a jab is one thing, but requiring it as a condition of employment is something else - especially when the products don’t work as promised. Oh and I might add that none of the 2 million + illegals being welcomed to our country are being forced to get quarantined, tested, or jabbed. So is all this really about health??
With all due respect, you really need to get up to speed on the CDC, NIH, FDA, and pharma company data omissions, substitutions, deceptions, misrepresentations, conflict of interests, deliberate lying (Fauci admitted he lied at least twice.) and flip-flopping.
Not a new thing for the military....anthrax vaccine under Clinton & Bush:
But studies show the rate of disability claims/disability separation was unaffected by the anthrax vaxx:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22874851/
You’d make me laugh.
I’m sick of screwing with people like you.
Svartalfiar wrote: “No one has? (No one has presented a credible argument that these vaccines are ‘experimental’.)”
Neither did you. The facts remain that these vaccines have been fully approved which removes any credibility from the argument that they are ‘experimental’. While you may have presented some shortcomings, you failed to prove they are experimental.
T.B. Yoits wrote: “Calling Lifesite News and Childrens’ Health Defense propaganda is very funny. Anti-vaxxer is a propaganda term. These are not anti-vaccine, they’re anti-forced experimentation as were those who rightfully carried out the Nuremberg Trials.”
I didn’t mean to be funny when I called lifesite news and childrens health defense propaganda. Neither of those sites are remotely funny when one considers the disinformation those site have promoted. Take a quick look at how wrong Kennedy has been wrong. Lifesite is just another version of kennedy.
I agree. I served 24 years in the Army. They pumped me full of all kinds of chemicals before each deployment. Didn’t have the luxury of saying no.
As a commander I had to deal with soldiers every year trying to avoid the mandatory flu shot. But as they old saying goes - 10% of your soldiers take up 90% of your time.
Legally they are not per Attorney Robert Barnes.
He has won court cases proving this.
I won’t play word games. The people who make the decision that are “hired” by the people voted in are making the decision and if the members refuse the order, they are separated. That’s the rules they signed the contract for and swore to when they entered the military and took the money. They were aware if they chose not to follow the rules, one of the options by the government was to separate them. It’s just that simple.
wy69
Ebough
Enlightened1 wrote: “Legally they are not per Attorney Robert Barnes. He has won court cases proving this.”
Then how do you explain this:
“Free letter to use to object to any vaccine mandate. This applies even to the FDA approved vaccine. Your rights don’t go away that easy.”
https://twitter.com/barnes_law/status/1429986312115818497?lang=en
Even your source agrees the vaccines are approved. His letter addresses fetal cells.
“...he failed to give any examples of what constituted an “unlawful order”.”
Which is the reason I’m saying what I am. The vaccines are determined safe enough by the agencies representing the people to use in a legal perspective. There is no way for anyone except deity to know how it will effect any one person. An since you have some experience directly related to the topic of lawful versus unlawful orders, you also know that the military lives off winning by having anyone left at the end rather than what they started with.
History has many examples of losing people in the military because someone charged a hill, or flew into a heavy flack zone, or was over run in a firefight. It’s part of the business. Life and death means something different to those that put it up for grabs. And those that aren’t willing to do so shouldn’t be in that business.
I’m not a cop in the civilian world, or fire protection. They are just like I was. But I got too old and beat up so I retired (or they retired me for my own good). But people have to do that or others can’t live the dream and full fill their lives in a comfortable happy manner.
An unlawful order is any order that can be determined as a threat to priority “A” materials and equipment. And that is a stretch in itself. There is no such thing as a lawful order if it can be challenged by our legal system, military and/or civilian. This is why appeals can go for years, one after another. So whoever of position said it last, is what it is today.
Thank you for the post. It was intelligent and not insulting. Appreciate it.
wy69
“...you really need to get up to speed on the CDC, NIH, FDA, and pharma company...”
On January 31, 2022, the FDA announced its full approval (licensing) of the Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine for individuals 18 and older. The Moderna vaccine had been administered under an Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) from the FDA since December 18, 2020. This is the second COVID-19 vaccine to be approved by the FDA following approval of Pfizer-BioNTech’s COVID-19 vaccine on August 23, 2021. Notably, the approved Moderna COVID-19 vaccine will be marketed and known as the ‘Spikevax.’
https://www.natlawreview.com/article/covid-19-vaccine-update-february-2022
Your argument with the validity of the vaccine aimed at me is irrelevant if you are saying I’m wrong while the people that make the rules are in the act of licensing the product. So how much do I need to know. You should choose to argue with them, not me, by this. I don’t have an argument about the validity of the vaccines. I am stuck, just like you, with their use, when the people, voters just like yourself, are unhappy with the system because they don’t like the products that are approved any way it is legally done. You’re unhappy, change your vote next time. And help see that the state run elections are honest. Anything else that most people can do is futile. And making me the scapegoat for the wrong people being in power falls under the same catagory.
wy69
“... I had to deal with soldiers every year trying to avoid the mandatory flu shot.”
Interesting thing, sir, is I am willing to bet that a vast majority of the population has no idea that trying to stay alive using the determination of command telling us how, is not always logical to the one not knowing. But it is accepted as the best way to finish the mission. And that trust is what makes the military a unit and not a bunch of individuals that will be eliminated by the command or charlie, which ever comes first.
The military deals with numbers and replacements of the same, and only in later years career field slots allocated on the UMD, to accomplish a task. And not everyone is Audie Murphy and is willing to die for his/her country if it is needed.
But to determine the loss of their job and complaining about it by disagreeing with an order like this just further indicates that we have lacked in our work of getting the right people that understand the responsibility of their action and carry though. We have gained people who just complain about the way it is being accomplished with no recourse or information.
Those Marine pilots take a far greater risk doing their work than dying from a vaccine injection. I will say that they are stepping forward with their argument not by using religion as an excuse. But choosing to be separated this way doesn’t seem consistent with military history, tradition, or even intelligent reasoning. They have decided to take the action with nothing but the opinion of people not in command, or the know, influencing their decision to separate. And then complaining they want to keep their job? Following orders is part of the job.
wy69
I wonder what opinion,if any,you might have regarding my Post #60.
Mass Formation Psychosis.
Enjoy your next booster.
Have a nice day.
Svartalfiar wrote: “Approved does not mean not experimental. The very fact that there is no mid- or long- term data on them is what makes them still experimental. That’s not a shortcoming, that’s the definition of experimental!”
Simply incorrect. Amazing the linguistic contortions anti-vaxxers will go through to justify their prejudices. Now, here’s the legal truth about ‘experimental’. This article is well worth reading, much more so than your typical anti-vaxxer rumble video.
An excerpt:
INTRODUCTION
To date, more than seven hundred thousand Americans have died from COVID-19, the disease cause by the SARS-CoV-2 virus, and exponentially more have been impacted by it. Vaccines are an essential tool in our fight against the virus.[3] In late 2020 the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) issued an Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) for two COVID-19 mRNA vaccines, one manufactured by Pfizer-BioNTech and the other manufactured by Moderna.[4] In early2021, the FDA issued an EUA for a third COVID-19 vaccine by Johnson and Johnson (J&J, Janssen), which uses widely accepted adenovirus vector technology.[5] By October 2, 2021, over two hundred million people in the United States had received at least one COVID-19 vaccine dose.[6]
Opponents have used the fact that the vaccines were each approved for use under an EUA and that they have not yet been fully licensed to argue against COVID vaccine mandates. Among other things, vaccine opponents have specifically argued that the absence of full FDA approvals means the vaccines are “experimental.” This is inaccurate and harmful because the vaccines have been given to over two hundred million people in the United States alone.
Vaccine opponents are raising the specter of unethical experimentation on people during the Holocaust and the Tuskegee Syphilis Study to create fear, uncertainty, and doubt about COVID-19 vaccines.[7], [8] For example, the anti-vaccine group Children’s Health Defense describes COVID-19 vaccines as “experimental” in a recent video.[9] The anti-vaccine website V is for Vaccines also uses the misnomer “experimental” to deter people from getting vaccinated,[10] featuring the claim on a short flier they sell and ask supporters to distribute.[11] The claim can also be found on other anti-vaccine propaganda.[12] Additionally, in several recent lawsuits that challenged vaccine mandates, plaintiffs characterize the COVID-19 vaccines authorized under the EUA as “experimental.”[13] For example, one hundred seventeen employees sued Methodist Hospital in Houston, Texas after it mandated that all employees get vaccinated. The plaintiffs argued against the mandate, claiming that the vaccines were “experimental.” The plaintiffs further alleged that mandating the staff take an “experimental” vaccine violated the Nuremberg Code, was illegal, and was akin to Nazi medical experimentation.[14]
In short, the term “experimental” is being used normatively to deter people from getting the vaccine or as an argument against requiring the vaccine as a work condition. In the context of COVID-19 vaccines, this term is being misused, but it does raise a real question. The standard for giving an EUA is relatively lax and does allow for authorization of an “experimental” product. When would a product cease to be “experimental” in this context? This Article offers some guidance about that and explain why, under any conceivable standard, the COVID-19 vaccines now in use in the United States cannot fairly be described as “experimental.”
On August 23, 2021, the FDA licensed Pfizer-BioNTech’s COVID-19 vaccine.[15] For some, that removes the question of whether that vaccine is experimental, and it likely resolves the legal issue for mandates. However, there are still two COVID-19 vaccines under an EUA, and more importantly, the issue is likely to come up again, in the future. For that reason, setting out what should and should not count as “experimental” matters.
One should note that this article was published prior to the full approval of the vaccines.
“You say that as if the people in command have all the knowledge and answers and are 100% correct and truthful...”
I guess I need to apologize. It appears I haven’t made my point with you. What I said is that the people in command are in charge, they have decided the vaccines are safe and to be used, the pilots committed through contract and their sworn oath that they would follow the orders of their superiors if they are determined safe, and the pilots broke that oath by determining not to use the vaccines in violation of that order. Whether the military is 100% correct, which is impossible as everyone has an opinion whether they know all of a situation or not, and truthful, which can also be an opinion, the action doesn’t mean anything to this function.
For what they are being discharged for, isn’t in that mix.
It doesn’t make any difference how many of those pilots are doctors with lab facilities, but they are one of the two entities in a position to determine if they are going to cease their career as pilots. They made a choice that is headed that way because it hasn’t a thing to do with the vaccines. It has to do with their making the wrong decision on the validity of the order that is not consistent with the military. So they are failing to follow the order. And that’s not medical, it’s challenging authority. And it doesn’t make any difference whether the vaccine is safe or not in their minds. They are not being discharged for the their opinions on the vaccines. It would help you if you looked on it in black and white and not gray.
In this country, you can make choices like this. I can choose anything I wish as long as I’m willing to be responsible for the ramification. If I choose to run my car over a cliff, not in it, then I’m on foot. But if I get paid in advance a large amount of money and I promise to do the work to be paid for it, and don’t because I don’t like the conditions, then I get fired and either pay them back or possibly get nailed in a lawsuit.
The pilots have had more money spent on them in training than most ever see in their lifetime. They are paid far better than a vast majority of people in a dangerous job like them in most cases likje police and fire. And all they are being asked to do is follow the order or leave. But they want to stay while not following the order. Who put them in charge? The answer to that is they did when they decided to countermand the order and decided to be put back into the civilian world. They appear to want to do the things in the job they like to do. No legitimate job works like that. So unless you run the business, you take orders on who, when and how. They don’t own the business, so they decided they didn’t want to work for it.
My last words.
wy69
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