The Root Causes of Pearl Harbor Serve as Important Lessons for America Today

DB Daily Update ^ | David Blackmon

[BroJoeK]

"You're making the assertion US wartime production would have been what it was even without US involvement in the War."

No, I'm only saying that by 1940, as the graph shows, US employment was already the highest in history to date, the Great Depression was behind us and FDR did not need more "stimulus" from yet more increased war-time production.
By 1940 the US was doing just fine economically.

So the "real reasons" for the US going to war go back to what was said at the time -- FDR wanted to help out our British, French, Dutch, Norwegian & other allies, and he especially wanted to defeat "unconditionally" the Nazi Germans.

[ealgeone]

IF, as you assert, FDR wanted to defeat the Germans he could have asked for a Declaration of War in 1939 when the British and French declared war on Germany....IF he wanted to defeat the Germans.

btw...what is the source for your employment figures?

[BroJoeK]

eagleone: "IF, as you assert, FDR wanted to defeat the Germans he could have asked for a Declaration of War in 1939 when the British and French declared war on Germany....IF he wanted to defeat the Germans."

By 1939 nearly all Americans felt burned and deceived by the First World War and wanted no part of another.
Polls taken in September 1939 and early 1940 showed upwards of 90% of Americans opposed declaring war against Germany.
As late as the summer of 1941 around 80% of Americans still opposed going to war.
So FDR did not ask Congress for a declaration of war then, only for what most all Americans did agree to -- supplying weapons to our allies.

eagleone: "btw...what is the source for your employment figures?"

From here.
The unemployment numbers are not as rosy, but by 1940 & 1941, they are moving steeply in the right direction:

[ealgeone]

Your graph disproves your assertion the economy was rebounding and would have done so without the war. We would not have spent the money on lend lease as we did full scale war.

[BroJoeK]

No, the graphs show that employment was already higher than pre-Depression and unemployment was rapidly moving down, before December 7, 1941.

Unemployment continued to fall in 1942, all based on military spending approved BEFORE December 7, 1941.
So I’m not saying the US economy would have done as well without war as with, only that it was already on pretty good shape by end of 1941 and would have stayed good even absent Pearl Harbor.

[ealgeone]

You continue to make my point....FDR needed and wanted the war to get the economy going as the ND had failed.

[BroJoeK]

No, but you continue to ignore the obvious: the US economy by 1940 was in good shape and rapidly improving without a US declaration of war.
So FDR did not "need" war for economic reasons, but he did absolutely want to help our European allies and defeat the Nazi Germans.

The Japanese were a secondary issue, but, as it turned out, helpful in achieving FDR's primary objective: the utter destruction of Nazi Germany.

[ealgeone]

By 1940 the US was doing just fine economically.

14% unemployment is doing just fine??

You and Obama and the libs view a well performing economy way different than the rest of us.

Without the War the economy was not doing "fine" as you say.

[CodeToad]

“I have never known why FDR wanted us in a war.”

AS with all the wars the democrats have gotten us into: To hide their failed economic and domestic policies. The Great Depression was FDR’s fault. It should never have happened, and after 10 years it was still ongoing at the start of WWII.

[ealgeone]

""In closing, America also bears some of the blame in its clumsy handling of Japan in the forty years prior to the Pearl Harbor attack, and because it began rebuilding its military and navy far too late to thwart Japan's imperialist ambitions."

To a degree there is some truth in this. FDR cut the oil to Japan, along with other material embargos, threatening their economy. He had also shut the Panama Canal to Japanese shipping. The impact of the scrap iron, oil and copper embargos were very impactful in driving Japan's future actions.

He knew war was coming with Japan...and as I've stated previously, believe he wanted the US in the war.

Richardson asked the President if the United States was going to war. Roosevelt's view was: At least as early as October 8, 1940, ...affairs had reached such a state that the United States would become involved in a war with Japan. ... 'that if the Japanese attacked Thailand, or the Kra Peninsula, or the Dutch East Indies we would not enter the war, that if they even attacked the Philippines he doubted whether we would enter the war, but that they (the Japanese) could not always avoid making mistakes and that as the war continued and that area of operations expanded sooner or later they would make a mistake and we would enter the war.' ... .[6][7]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Events_leading_to_the_attack_on_Pearl_Harbor

The breaking of their diplomatic code should have been the key we were looking for.

I think a lot of historians are bending over backwards to protect FDR's legacy.

[Vehmgericht]

FDR did not like Germans. They had arrested three times in his youth. Germany was a threat. It was a threat to the Soviet Union. “In closing, America also bears some of the blame...” What is “America”? Is it the American people who were overwhelmingly opposed to the war, or was it the leadership who were worried about the future of the Soviet Union. The war was precipitated by an ultimatum to Japan delivered to Secretary Morgenthau by Harry Dexter White, a Soviet agent. The ultimatum originated in Moscow. The Japanese diplomatic code was broken. It all went according to plan, delivering half of Europe to the Soviets.

[Captain Peter Blood]

READ Nigel Hamilton’s three volume series on FDR as Commander In Chief. All of these stuff with Japan and Germany are covered, well researched books. There a something on MacArthur that stinks to high heaven while he was on Corregidor.

[dfwgator]

If FDR was so anxious to go to war, why didn’t he declare war in October of 1941, when the Germans sunk the Reuben James?

[Captain Peter Blood]

Admiral Thomas Hart, commander of the Asiatic Fleet was ready and did not lose any ships when Japan attacked. Hart got too vocal in his criticism of FDR and was relieved of his command. Great sea Admiral.

[ealgeone]

He was a typical politician....afraid to do the right thing.

He told Stalin he would have to stand for a third term for the US to win the war. I think the US would have done just fine if he'd only served two terms.

[dfwgator]

I always laugh when thinking if we had FR back in 1939/40.

Everybody would have been calling each other, one of the following:

Hitler Lover
Stalin Lover

or worst of all, FDR Lover. ;)

[ealgeone]

LOL...true!

[Captain Peter Blood]

What bunk.

[ealgeone]

BUT....we might not have had FDR if we’d had FR back then!

[timestax]

Somebody did something.= The Squat.