The side of self determination lost. The side of corrupt government influence won, and that cartel is still ruining the country today.
All of America lost in that war. We lost the right of self determination.
Posted on 12/08/2019 6:35:40 PM PST by bitt
Time, and history, will tell if Donald Trump is “better” or “greater” than Abraham Lincoln. But if he is re-empowered in 2020 to actually make great Republican principles work, Trump would be the Lincoln we deserve.
recent poll, widely reported, found that a slight majority of self-described conservatives say Donald Trump is a better president than Abraham Lincoln. God only knows what such a response means, in an age when our mass media considers it their democratic duty to dox and fire ordinary people for their opinions, and when most historians regard it as unprofessional to teach American history in a way that leaves students with a favorable impression of America.
As a university teacher of American politics and American history, I wouldn’t say that Trump is a better president than Lincoln. More useful would be to ask how the principles Lincoln stood for and the policies the Republicans of his era favored can be adapted to the United States of today. After all, it is more than a century and a half after a Democrat and celebrity actor decided to sacrifice his life and career to star before a D.C. audience in actual assassination porn.
The Republican Party—from Lincoln to Ford—had a constitutional vision and a policy agenda. Republicans in Congress enacted pro-growth, pro-equality, domestic policy: civil rights for African-Americans, the Morrill Land Grant that subsidized higher education for the children of farmers and workers, fiat money, and the Homestead Act. Republicans enacted tariff and antitrust protection of American industries, and immigration restriction to protect American workers, so that “cheap goods” did not make “cheap men.”
(Excerpt) Read more at amgreatness.com ...
No. The Union is perpetual and supreme. The only way out is through a constitutional amendment or winning a rebellion. You can’t just leave because you don’t like the results of an election.
This claim is factually incorrect. Lincoln sent warships with orders to make the South submit. Those warships started the war, and I know you don't like hearing it, but that is the absolute truth.
No warships sent on a belligerent mission, no war.
a violent war of secession to preserve an economic system based on the use of slave labor
And another f***ing lie. They *ALREADY HAD* that system under the United States. You keep trying to make it sound like they were changing something, and this is incorrect.
They weren't trying to change anything from what was already the normal condition under the United States government.
What they were trying to do is get away from the control of Washington DC and New York, you know, the same d@mn bastards who are still controlling us today and sucking up all the money in the nation to enrich themselves.
You can't seem to grasp that the totalitarian corrupt bastards we are fighting today, are the same totalitarian corrupt bastards they were fighting back then.
The corruption influence cartel between New York and Washington DC is the dominant threat to our freedoms today, and you have to be some sort of fool not to understand this, and you have to be another sort of fool to think this just started recently.
I used to argue with her a lot over at the Briefing room. In a word, I considered her to be an @$$. I recall her mocking the idea that Trump would build the wall, and I almost want to go back over there to rub the fact that he is building the wall in her face.
She also hated Judge Roy Moore in Alabama and simply regurgitated the lies the media kept spreading about him.
She always seemed to be coming down on the wrong side of every issue being discussed, and the never Trump aspect of her was the worst.
I don't know if you are still in contact with her, but if you are, mention the wall. :)
I don’t know
I think that state of Franklin sounds good ....two new senators and electoral votes for us
You may not like partition or secession or whatever
But it’s likely in our future
Nobody has the stomach to exterminate the LEFT enough to bring it to heel
I haven’t seen her since she left here nor heard from her
She’s somewhere in central VA
Is Stinkspur....a south hater extraordinaire ....still over there?
What threat to the Union did Lincoln face? The possibility that the South would stop paying 75% of all the taxes and take European trade away from the control of his New York cronies?
Yes, that's a mighty big threat all right. Other than the loss of all that money, the South wasn't going to be any sort of threat to the USA.
The British Union was "perpetual" and "supreme." Our own union was built on the foundation that people had a right to self determination and that God had granted mankind the right to rule themselves.
This defacto defines the Union as dissoluble, as much as you would like to ignore what is written in our founding document.
The only way out is through a constitutional amendment or winning a rebellion.
The Declaration of Independence disagrees with your assertion, as does the ratifying statements of New York, Virginia and Rhode Island.
There is virtually no evidence to support your claim that an amendment is required, and quite a lot of evidence that contradicts this claim.
You can’t just leave because you don’t like the results of an election.
And of course this ignores the prior history and tries to encapsulate everything as a "snit" caused by the loss of an election. No dude, the election of Lincoln was merely the final straw in a long ongoing series of events in which the South was getting hurt.
You may not be aware of this, but John Calhoun was trying to get the South to leave in the 1820s, long before Lincoln ever came onto the national stage.
But as with everything else regarding the Civil war, people simply regurgitate propaganda they like.
Sinkspur was over there. I recall the name, and I recall arguing with him/her. I don't know what's going on over there lately because I haven't been over there in a year or two. One of the moderators kept moving my posts to a dead thread, or engaging in various other forms of attempted censorship, and I simply got tired of it and quit going there.
Some people over there liked me, and several others just hated me. One of them was a moderator and wouldn't quit F***ing with my posts.
I will say, some of the never Trumpers eventually saw the light and became Trump supporters, but some of them were just die hard unreasonable, and you couldn't change their mind no matter what you said or showed to them.
You moron, I’m a conservative. You’re the Democrat here, all you Confederates are and were Democrats.
I should know better than to rattle your cage but then again listening to your fulminations and idiocy are always good for a laugh. here’s the spoiler: Your side lost.
The side of self determination lost. The side of corrupt government influence won, and that cartel is still ruining the country today.
All of America lost in that war. We lost the right of self determination.
Few people who have ever posted here on the Civil War have not only been as long winded and wrong but have proven to be so staggeringly ignorant as you. The South launched a war of violent secession to preserve an economic system based on the use of slave labor and lost and lost catastrophically.
I keep explaining to you how you are wrong, and you keep ignoring the *EVIDENCE* which I show you.
The South launched a war of violent secession
This is incorrect. The first act of violence was Major Anderson kidnapping a Southern ship captain and forcing him to carry his troops to Sumter, and in the process burning the guns at Fort Moultrie. This is after the Secretary of War had informed South Carolina that all the installations would be turned over to them.
The Second act of Violence was Abraham Lincoln ordering a fleet of warships to fire on the people of South Carolina if they did not *SUBMIT* to his continued occupation of their land, and the continued collection of taxes from them.
So you see, you are incorrect. The people of South Carolina did not start the war. Abraham Lincoln started the war, and he did so deliberately.
His orders to Lieutenant Porter had Porter opening fire on Southern ships, with Porter having no knowledge of events in South Carolina. Had Lincoln not started the war in Charleston, Porter would have been credited with starting it in Pensacola.
You need to stop believing crap, and start understanding the truth of what happened.
to preserve an economic system based on the use of slave labor
And this is just a lie. The existing economic system under the United States government would have remained a slave based system.
Stop lying to us by telling us the South was changing something. No, they were keeping things exactly as they had always been under the USA. They weren't changing a d@mn thing.
*THIS* was the United States for "four score and seven years." 
Stop trying to pretend that slavery wasn't the normal condition of the United States of America. In fact, Slave states existed in the USA longer than they did in the Confederacy.
Oh, and bow down and kiss the feet of your New York/Washington DC masters. They’ve successfully made a slave out of you.
Slavery did exist in America prior to 1861. Only the South fought a war to preserve, not to end it.
Stick it in your ear pal. I bow to no ‘’master’’. Christ you’re too stupid to be an idiot.
The South did not fight a war to preserve slavery. Slavery was legal and protected by Constitutional law, and so the war was clearly not about keeping something they already had and which was legally recognized by the government in Washington DC as well as the other states.
The North did not fight a war to end slavery. They fought a war, which they deliberately initiated, to maintain control over the South's trade with Europe, and to fill the pockets of Washington DC with all that money coming from Southern exports to Europe.
The North eventually decided to end slavery, not because it was the moral thing to do, but because they believed it would help them win the war, and also to punish the South which relied so heavily on slavery in it's economy.
We know the North had no concern for the slaves, because the Northern Congress, and with Lincoln's urging, passed the Corwin amendment, which would make the Union into a nation that passed a constitutional amendment to preserve slavery.
The Corwin amendment clarifies what was really going on.
If you don't think the New York plutocrats and their media tools, along with all the corrupt Deep State influence peddlers in Washington DC, run this country, then you need to wake up.
What is it, pray tell, that Washington DC manufactures, which makes it and it's surrounding counties the wealthiest in the USA?
Where does all that money going into government pockets come from?
Taxpayers. Christ if you had half a brain it’d be lonely.
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