Which Caliber would you Use in a SHTF Scenario? There are always debates on which is the better carry handgun and we get down to the ballistics, which is better?, a .357 Magnum or a 45ACP? Posted on 04/04/2018 5:51:13 PM PDT by w1n1
Which Caliber would you Use in a SHTF Scenario? There are always debates on which is the better carry handgun and we get down to the ballistics, which is better?, a .357 Magnum or a 45ACP?
357vs45acpMost of us gun enthusiasts understand the differences between the two ammo and how powerful it is. But sometimes its good to see the visual effects of the ballistics. The following is a penetration comparison of the two ammo and it is the un-scientific approach. Basically shoot at different type of objects and observe the effects.
The other consideration that we’ll talk about is which one fits the SHTF scenario.
Results
It’s always a great match up that clearly defines the legendary stopping power of .45 ACP at shorter ranges, with .357 performing better for penetration at longer distances.
Historically, the .45 ACP was specifically designed for the US Army to be a knock down round at short distances; intended to put a man down with just a couple of shots and the impact on the masonry that you see in the video clearly shows this.
The .357 is more rifle-like and longer casing keeps a higher velocity at farther distances so this round out performed on the hardwood at longer ranges. Currently, it is a popular caliber, even hunters use it in carbines for that very good performance over longer ranges when compared to other fpistol calibers. Read the rest of the story and see the full footage on 357 magnum vs 45 acp here.
A simple little 22 LR ruined the day for 4 during the attempted assassination of Ronald Reagan. Only 6 shots were fired from a cheap little RG snubbie. 3 went to the ground.
“With proper loads the LC surpasses the 44 mag in ft-lbs”
Smiles........yup.
She sounds like a keeper!
Try a 185gr Gold Dot at 1200fps in 45.
One of my two favorite loads.
“SHTF, I want a weapon that tolerates dirt and grit and won’t bind up, that is an auto. ...” [dangerdoc, post 26]
“My old Colt Python 357 with a 6 in barrel. Still my favorite.” [Oldexpat, post 36]
Despite developments since 1980, a revolver is still 100 times more reliable than a semi-auto - in terms of the probability that you will fire any second (or subsequent) shot.
An autoloader can be accurate, or it can be reliable. If it’s tight enough to be accurate, reliability goes down. If it’s loose enough to be reliable, accuracy suffers and effective range is reduced. Especially true with Colt’s Government Model autoloader - which is not the equal of today’s autoloaders, neither in accuracy nor reliability (it did appear over 107 years ago).
45 ACP is not some world-beating cartridge with magical powers. It’s simply the biggest-bore round that could fit into what was considered the upper limit of size, for a military issue sidearm. It was superior to the issue cartridge of the day - 38 Long Colt.
Colt’s Python has no equal in accuracy nor smoothness of function. But it’s not the strongest now available. Developed an unhappy reputation for unscrewing the barrel if subjected to a diet of heavy loads; handgun silhouette competitors discovered this.
And there are fewer gunsmiths every day, willing to work on any DA Colt. Drop-in fit of replacement parts is almost non-existent; practice, patience, and skill are needed. Parts are getting more scarce, now that it’s no longer in production. Perhaps not the greatest choice for a SHTF scenario - quite apart from the climb in asking prices seen of late.
The primary advantages of an autoloader are higher capacity and quicker reloading (proved one has loaded magazines handy), and less bulk than a revolver.
Revolvers are more flexible when it comes to ammunition. All bullet types, all load levels will work equally well. It is also easier to recover empty cases. And cases last longer - the revolver’s action is very kind to them. Important points for the handloader, moreso in any situation where chaos and societal breakdown might figure. Disadvantages: limited capacity, slower reloading.
No compromise is perfect: each design has advantages, and drawbacks.
SHTF none of the above. A .44mag with a Ruger Super Blackhawk 7.5” single action and a Model 92 Winchester lever in .44Mag.
“I had a python back in the 70’s,”
Ouch. We have a fine nickel plated 4” Python that’s sheer joy to shoot.
L
My absolute favorite range gun is a S&W 625, I can shoot a few hundred rounds through it before it will bind up, my old 1911s have shot more than a thousand rounds and kept shooting. I can strip the auto in a few minutes, knock off the crud and be back shooting in a few minutes without tools, I’ve had revolvers bind up so bad it took a gun smith to open it back up. That is the reliability I worry about. If I have a jam in the auto, I can clear it in seconds but with my newer weapons, I can’t remember the last time I had a jam. I’ve had a revolver jam with crud within the last year.
I prefer shooting revolvers but if you are considering possibly needing to shoot hundreds of rounds without stopping, an auto is going to be more reliable, in my personal experience.
That
.45 for true close up use.
.357 for dual use, like the old Colt-Winchester pairings.
If you knew how little I had to sell it for, you’d have a better idea what a painful memory it is. Things improved greatly over the years, but I never owned another Python. On the up side, the Highway Patrolman I presently own is almost mint, and it’s superbly accurate. It’s one of a sweet collection of vintage S&W’s I’m very proud of. The 94 Winchester I mentioned also has a couple of Blackhawks for companion pieces too, but yea, I wouldn’t mind just holding another Python.
“If you knew how little I had to sell it for,“
If you knew how little we paid for ours.....
I still miss the Belgian FN Hi-Power I let go for $300.
L
“...favorite range gun is a S&W 625, I can shoot a few hundred rounds through it before it will bind up, my old 1911s have shot more than a thousand rounds and kept shooting. ... an auto is going to be more reliable, in my personal experience.”
I salute you, for excellent gun care. And for your good luck.
Do you have original-issue GI M1911s? Not unusual for them to be very good with feed reliability. Tolerances were rather loose when they were made, and they’ve only grown looser with age. But their capability to shoot tight groups is usually not very good.
S&W has been known for tight tolerances. Vintage Colts are tighter still. Aside from ammunition-related stoppages, the only revolver I’ve ever observed to bind up was a Colt’s New Service, in 45 ACP, M1917 US Army model made during World War One. Sat out in the springtime sunshine on a table for an hour first.
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Apples and oranges!
.45 ACP is a deadly short range weapon against a well armed adversary.
357 is more of a LEO general use weapon with acceptable medium range accuracy and kill power.
Match the weapon to the need.
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>> “They also seem to make some nice semi auto 357 handguns” <<
Those shoot a completely different cartridge!
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Series 70s, with a lot of rounds through them. I shoot about 5 inch groups off hand at 25 yards, so all the accuracy I need. I shoot about the same with the 625 so I think it is operator dependent rather than the weapon.
I end up shooting a lot more with the 625 just because it is such a joy to shoot but I have to remember to stop every 2 hundred or so rounds and brush out the crud. A couple of months ago, my boy was shooting it and got is so bound that I about had to make another trip to the smith. Careful use of a wood block and hammer get it open so I could clean it.
I carry a Glock 10 now, similar power as a .357, more rounds than my 1911s and I am very happy with reliability. Darn big gun though, about as hard to conceal as an N frame revolver (which I have done in the past) but a lot lighter. Used to load the 625 with 45 Super rounds when hiking.
“Series 70s, ... 5 inch groups off hand at 25 yards, so all the accuracy I need. I shoot about the same with the 625 so I think it is operator dependent ... I have to remember to stop every 2 hundred or so rounds and brush out the crud. ... my boy was shooting it ... Careful use of a wood block and hammer get it open so I could clean it.
I carry a Glock 10 ... a lot lighter. Used to load the 625 with 45 Super rounds when hiking.”
Outstanding.
It’s sad that Colt’s discontinued the Series 70 Government bushing/barrel configuration - accuracy was far beyond all but the most expertly fitted original configuration.
Seen many a S&W bind up. Sometimes, the ejector rod unscrews and moves forward, to the point where the center pin cannot move far enough to push the forward locking stud clear of the rod housing recess. Obviously not the problem you encountered: tapping on the cylinder with the thumb latch forward would have damaged things. And cleaning would not have helped.
The 10mm Auto may be the only round for autoloaders capable of equaling revolver performance. Some revolvers do chamber it. And there isn’t much out there that can stop a Glock, shy of flattening it with a steamroller.
Wasn’t aware the 625 was rated for 45 Super.
The reliability comparison I wrote of was very broad: across the industry, encompassing all revolvers versus all autoloaders, in every state of wear and fouling. Individual handguns vary quite a bit - one particular pistol may beat out one particular revolver at any given moment. The documentation I saw did not even specify the difference in hard numbers: it merely read “two orders of magnitude,” which is 100 in logarithmic terms.
A lot of folks have shot 45 super out of the 625, a few will ream them for 460 Rowland but I think the cylinder wall with notch is a little thin for magnum pressure. But mostly I shoot plain old 45 auto.
That’s competitive level shooting
I can hit a milk jug at 25 yards all day with most .357 revolvers four inch or better barrel and my kids think I’m a crack shot
Wild Bill Hickock could shoot a tuna can at that distance and make it dance with. .36 Paterson or later a pair of .36 Colt Navy revolvers
All percussions
I don’t practice
I prefer revolvers for simplicity and dependability but I can hit better with blocks
Hi Power or 1911 or old HK and Steyr fit my hand Andy point better
I don’t like glock or sig feel
If I had to have one pistol and ammo were no issue
The FN 5.7
Simply amazing
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