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To: BroJoeK
The US GDP nearly doubled during the Civil War and doubled again by 1892, during which time US Federal spending remained roughly 2.5% of the economy.

I've seen this discussion before. You are ignoring the effect of massive inflation caused by the government policy of borrowing and spending. (I wonder who was doing the loaning?)

There's no statistical evidence the percentage of corruption increased, though it's entirely possible the beneficiaries changed from pre-war 100% Democrats to later include some small percentage of Republicans, and that, we can be certain, is the source of endless Democrat caterwauling about alleged "Gilded Age Corruption".

In 1860, the Republicans *were* the Democrats. Big City, Liberal, Wealthy, colluding with Government, protectionist, tax and spend. Yup, Democrats.

460 posted on 02/19/2018 2:34:40 PM PST by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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To: DiogenesLamp
DiogenesLamp on US GDP growth: "I've seen this discussion before.
You are ignoring the effect of massive inflation caused by the government policy of borrowing and spending.
(I wonder who was doing the loaning?) "

I'm ignoring nothing because that's irrelevant to this discussion -- US GDP nearly doubled between 1860 and 1865, then doubled again by 1892.
At the same time, US Federal spending excluding war-debt payments remained pretty constant at roughly 2.5% of GDP (today's Federal spending is north of 20% of GDP).

But the issue is: was "Gilded Age Corruption" after 1865 worse than before 1860?
The answer is: there's no statistical evidence it was, but even if corruption percents remained the same, then along with GDP and Federal spending dollars would statistically double by 1865 and double again by 1892.

But I'm further suggesting that after 1861 we saw the beneficiaries of Federal corruption change from 100% Democrats to now include some Republicans and that is what caused the endless Democrat caterwauling about alleged "Gilded Age Corruption".

DiogenesLamp: "In 1860, the Republicans *were* the Democrats.
Big City, Liberal, Wealthy, colluding with Government, protectionist, tax and spend.
Yup, Democrats."

No, Democrats have always been Democrats, and certainly by 1860 pretty much the same people as today:

  1. Big City in 1860, Yup, Democrats.
  2. "Liberal" in 1860, meaning special privileges for Democrats, Yup, Democrats.
  3. Wealthy in 1860, meaning those New York Power Brokers allied with Southern slave-holders, Yup, Democrats.
  4. Colluding with government in 1860, Yup, big time Democrats.
  5. Protectionists in 1860, sure, for Democrat produced products like sugar & rice, Yup, Democrats.
  6. Tax and spend in 1860, absolutely so long as Democrats got the lion's share, Yup, Democrats.

Republicans, then as now, were a vastly different group: more rural, small town, small business, Christians, anti-slavery, pro-manufacturing, pro-Union.
Yup, Republicans.

540 posted on 02/20/2018 11:07:29 AM PST by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
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