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To: Mollypitcher1
The North is no longer the Industrial Center and the South is no longer the Agricultural center of the country, depending on “slave” labor. Lincoln couldn’t afford to lose the enormous income of the South’s Tariffs. That was his greatest concern and he expressed it. The E.P. was his “Excuse” and not his reason for waging war.

It was far worse than just loosing the South's tariff revenue. Lincolns Backers in New York would have lost huge amounts of money as the natural trade between the South and Europe shifted to Southern ports, leaving New York bereft of this trade.

If the South had been allowed to be independent, it would have resulted in 80% of all Trade with North America shifting away from New York and towards Southern port cities such as Charleston and New Orleans.

This new capitalization of these areas would have started industries that would compete with the Northern Industries, and it would have also started a people drain as more and more immigrants and Northern people moved to the South to service these new income streams.

An independent South represented a huge financial loss to the North East, and also a loss of power and influence. This is why they needed a war to stop it. It would have wrecked their industries and income streams if it had been allowed to go forward.

121 posted on 02/12/2018 9:30:25 AM PST by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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To: DiogenesLamp

pure speculation.


126 posted on 02/12/2018 9:51:28 AM PST by Bull Snipe
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To: DiogenesLamp; Mollypitcher1; DoodleDawg; rockrr
Mollypitcher1 #54: "The North is no longer the Industrial Center and the South is no longer the Agricultural center of the country, depending on “slave” labor.
Lincoln couldn’t afford to lose the enormous income of the South’s Tariffs.
That was his greatest concern and he expressed it.
The E.P. was his 'Excuse' and not his reason for waging war."

DiogenesLamp #121: "It was far worse than just loosing the South's tariff revenue.
Lincolns Backers in New York would have lost huge amounts of money as the natural trade between the South and Europe shifted to Southern ports, leaving New York bereft of this trade.
If the South had been allowed to be independent, it would have resulted in 80% of all Trade with North America shifting away from New York and towards Southern port cities such as Charleston and New Orleans."

Bull Snipe #126: "pure speculation."

DiogenesLamp #155: "The numbers support it.
Even if it was speculation, the Northern Newspapers of the time repeatedly voiced it, and likely a lot of Northern people believed it."

Numbers certainly don't support DiogenesLamp's "80%" claim.
Yes, Northern Democrats, erstwhile political & economic allies of the Southern Slave-Power may, may have feared such outcomes, but they were not the chief concerns expressed by most.
The first & foremost concerns by Democrat "Northern Power Brokers" were Confederate debt repudiations which began in Georgia in April 1861, then went Confederate-wide in May.
Suddenly many Democrat "Northern Power Brokers" who had considered themselves well-off had nothing.

1861 Republicans were a different group of people, more rural, more manufacturing than mercantile, more traditional, they were originally Federalists who wanted to preserve, protect & defend the Constitution against lawless secessionists.
For Republicans economics would be secondary to higher concerns.

As for the 1863 Emancipation Proclamation, it was neither reason nor "excuse" for Civil War.
Rather, it was the result of war, as were the 13th, 14th & 15th amendments.
Nevertheless, emancipation was important to many Unionists:


341 posted on 02/17/2018 5:24:50 AM PST by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
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