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Houston Officials Shunned US Army Corps Warnings Days Before Harvey; Alerted 100K+ Homes (tr)
truepundit ^ | 8/28/2017 | truepundit

Posted on 08/29/2017 5:07:42 AM PDT by RummyChick

The mayor of Houston and Harris County officials were advised two days before Hurricane Harvey made landfall that the storm was brewing into a likely “catastrophic” 5-day weather event that would flood at least 100,000 homes and paralyze Houston.

Yet city and county officials refused to call for a mandatory or even voluntary evacuation of Houston.

The result: Houston and parts of Harris county look like flooded battlefields, with residents clinging to rooftops of their homes while rescue workers — both professional and volunteer — risk their lives to save untold thousands in distress.

Houston and Harris county’s four commissioners were briefed on Thursday morning, August 24 after the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers warned officials that Hurricane Harvey, which at that point had not made landfall, was shaping up to impact the region even worse than Hurricane Allison in 2001. That storm killed 22 in Houston, left 30,000 residents stranded, and damaged over $5 billion of property.

The officials were given ample time to evacuate the city, federal officials and correspondences examined by True Pundit confirmed.

(Excerpt) Read more at truepundit.com ...


TOPICS: Government
KEYWORDS: harvey; ooda; prepper; preppers
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To: Political Junkie Too

God bless Texas.


161 posted on 08/29/2017 1:27:32 PM PDT by dsc (Any attempt to move a government to the left is a crime against humanity.)
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To: RummyChick

I can’t believe some of these people that claim ‘if they had of known they would have left’. Did they NOT watch any weather channels? They were predicting all of this before it even got near land.


162 posted on 08/29/2017 1:59:45 PM PDT by MagnoliaB (You can't always get what you want but if you try sometime you might find, you get what you need.)
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To: minnesota_bound

That map would be the Houston metro area.

Everything on Buffalo Bayou and the Brazos and Mayde Creek and near the two reservoirs got absolutely hammered and that’s just near me.

Friendswood has been a disaster for three days, but that’s 50 miles from me.


163 posted on 08/29/2017 2:13:52 PM PDT by WVMnteer
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To: ican'tbelieveit
But you're not accounting for the decision horizon. Nobody wants to tackle that point.

You can do all those things you mentioned, but again, when do you start?

That isn’t necessary, wasn’t necessary. National Weather models were predicting massive flooding. Army Corp of Engineers: get out. And what is the response: we don’t evacuate for a rain event.

I keep repeating that this was not a news event on Tuesday. Harvey was only mentioned in the weather segments on the local news as a depression over the Yucatan Peninsula. Do you start doing all the things you mentioned on Tuesday over a disorganized tropical depression in Mexico?

Really, you couldn’t block roads you know flood every time to prevent people from driving into these flooded areas?

Houston always does that. TxDOT puts out barrel barriers, and the police park at exits with their lights flashing.

We have the slogan "Turn around, don't drown." for this very reason.

Everyday how many people commute around Houston in rush hour traffic? The infrastructure is there.

They are not all moving in the same direction at the same time. And not everyone works, or they work locally. You still have the elderly, and people without cars.

Really, you couldn’t move people out of the the areas you know flood always.

I would ask, once a staged evacuation begins, do you expect the rest of Houston to wait their turn?

I'd like someone to say they would have called for an evacuation on Tuesday at the very first sign of distant inclement weather, and then we can debate how the business and city government would have reacted.

Even if they called for an evacuation on Wednesday, how long do you think it would have taken for every to get home from work, and then mobilize and get back on the roads?

-PJ

164 posted on 08/29/2017 2:15:30 PM PDT by Political Junkie Too (The 1st Amendment gives the People the right to a free press, not CNN the right to the 1st question.)
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To: RummyChick

Nobody lied. The storm literally appeared on Tuesday. We knew it was going to get caught between two fronts on Wednesday and pummel us. By Thursday, it was hit the HEB and pray for luck. I think the upper limit was always discussed as 50 inches. I know that number was thrown around on Friday. But, a lot of us treated that as the “potential three feet” of snow scenarios you get in the Northeast all the time.

We did approach 50, but honestly, the last 25 were sort of academic. It was the first 25 on Friday and through Saturday that were devastating.


165 posted on 08/29/2017 2:17:24 PM PDT by WVMnteer
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To: Political Junkie Too

You are still treating the argument as the whole of Houston is evacuating.

The flooding started Saturday night. You have Wednesday night, all day and night Thursday, all day and night Friday, all day Saturday, and probably a good portion of the night.

In regards to getting the infirm, elderly, etc., out, what are all of those buses doing.

Your arguments are not convincing.

And, if you are telling people in low lying areas leave, and even now, with homes flooded, people will not leave their homes, I am not worried about more people than necessary leaving. It will balance out.

But they didn’t try.


166 posted on 08/29/2017 2:20:05 PM PDT by ican'tbelieveit
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To: ican'tbelieveit

Then why did 100 people die during the Rita evacuation which had a longer lead time and half a million fewer residents?

So far, the death total in the region is at 12. 6 of those are from a van in Pasadena that somehow fell into a bayou with 2 elderly people and 4 children.

There’s ultimately no good solution when a storm forms and hits this quickly.

Like I said, as of Tuesday morning, I was largely oblivious to it.

Here is the other factor. The run on gas happened on Thursday. There is no more gas in Houston. I just did a drive through of my Katy (what I could reach). Every gas pump is covered in a bag. Half the people would have run out of gas by Sealy or New Caney.


167 posted on 08/29/2017 2:22:18 PM PDT by WVMnteer
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To: Political Junkie Too

I work on the business side for a major hospital. We were let out at noon on Friday. Schools did not close until Friday. The storm hit....Friday night.

I wish I took pictures of the gas stations on Thursday evening. Cars were lined up around the block. And I’m in one of the more well-to-do suburbs.

Who the hell knows what things were like in the 5th Ward?

My opinion is that unless you live in a metro region with more than 1.5 million people, you should not offer an opinion on this.

Houston Metro is bigger than Connecticut, has more people than Minnesota and we basically have four choices of escape routes. (290, 59, 10, and 45).


168 posted on 08/29/2017 2:27:57 PM PDT by WVMnteer
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To: MagnoliaB

On what day. I knew of it on Tuesday. I knew how bad it could be on Wednesday. It hit Friday.

When did you know this was happening?

Give me your timeline.


169 posted on 08/29/2017 2:29:14 PM PDT by WVMnteer
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To: WVMnteer

sorry I missed your response.

I don’t disagree that the government leaving existing agricultural and minimal housing to exist was not good judgement and likewise allowing housing that could be impacted in any manner wasn’t too sensible.

The problem is that people hang onto this agricultural land near growing cities in hopes of getting a beyond-farmland price for it. The government only wants to pay farmland prices to buy them out so they sometimes just dodge the issue and don’t buy the surrounding land. The developer that buys the land builds houses and says, that these houses are outside the current 100 year flood plane and people buy them. Everyone is at fault in that process.

The congress approved money to protect Houston’s commercial interests. The Corps of Engineers has protected the improvement. I agree with you that the suburban development is out of control.


170 posted on 08/29/2017 2:53:22 PM PDT by KC Burke (If all the world is a stage, I would like to request my lighting be adjusted.)
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To: WVMnteer

I am not going to waste my time going over evacuation differences with Rita vs. what I am discussing.

And 12.6 with how many 1000s of cars under water, homes that have not been searched. We will not know the death toll for weeks. They have blatantly admitted the homes in the dams flood paths will remain flooded for months.

900+ people died in LA in their flooded homes.

Today, they finally were able to recover the body of a police officer whose car went into flood waters on Sunday morning.


171 posted on 08/29/2017 2:54:00 PM PDT by ican'tbelieveit
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To: ican'tbelieveit
You are still treating the argument as the whole of Houston is evacuating.

That's because the whole of Houston is flooding.

See Mapping the Devastation of Harvey In Houston


Many of the bayous, flood channels and rivers around the city were well above the top of the water bank as of 4 p.m. Central time on Monday.

Red dots are overflowed. Orange are nearly overflowed.


Rising waters have closed major roads, frontage lanes and exits. Thousands of people have been rescued from flooded cars and homes, many of which were almost completely submerged.

Purple dots are high water incidents.


Your arguments are not convincing.

I'm not convincing you. Given the maps above, where would YOU start, and how long would it take?

-PJ

172 posted on 08/29/2017 2:54:31 PM PDT by Political Junkie Too (The 1st Amendment gives the People the right to a free press, not CNN the right to the 1st question.)
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To: WVMnteer

Houston was not impacted until Saturday night into Sunday morning. Yes, the eye hit on Friday night, but the flooding did not take full hold until late Saturday into Sunday. 3 full days in there, but instead: Sorry, we can’t do anything about it.

Your previous point about fuel is very valid. But instead of throwing up our hands: sorry, can’t do anything about it, no fuel...

You are in refinery central.


173 posted on 08/29/2017 2:58:01 PM PDT by ican'tbelieveit
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To: ican'tbelieveit
Your picture is adding to the whole argument about they are not adequately preparing for evacuations. Look at that 1/2 interstate completely empty.

I'm pretty sure that's a photo of Rita and they eventually opened up all lanes northbound. Point is, how do you evacuate the fourth most populated city in the United States? I just don't know if you can?

Living in Jacksonville, I had to deal with Matthew last year and while it turned out to be fairly mild as far as hurricanes go, at the time we didn't really know what to expect. I made the decision to stay put, thinking I'd have a better chance roughing it out at home. I can't think of too many worse scenarios than to strand my family on the interstate, trapped amongst thousands of cars and packed together like sardines among countless panicked people.

174 posted on 08/29/2017 2:59:45 PM PDT by Drew68
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To: Political Junkie Too

Seriously, there are FLOOD PLAIN MAPS of Houston.

Everytime it rains, they know EXACTLY where it is going to flood. They know it so well the media stations themselves there to take the dramatic pictures. Sunday morning, guess what, we know where the water is, we are right there.

When the NWS and Army Corp of Engineers says this will be CATASTROPHIC, NEVER SEEN BEFORE flooding, start there. Move those people out. If the flooding continues, move more people out.

Instead, they waited until houses were under water to start pulling elderly out of homes.

I would much rather move them out of homes on buses, little road trip, instead of carrying them through feces and chemical laden water.


175 posted on 08/29/2017 3:01:39 PM PDT by ican'tbelieveit
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To: Drew68

Same exact false argument. No one is asking for the full evacuation of Houston. It doesn’t have to happen.

But since no one is willing to think about alternatives, lets keep dragging those elderly, children, and poor people out of their homes after they flood.


176 posted on 08/29/2017 3:02:56 PM PDT by ican'tbelieveit
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To: ican'tbelieveit
I still go back to "when," and you don't.

Tuesday? Wednesday? Thursday?

If you were mayor, on what day would YOU have started? How far away was Harvey on that day, what was its status, and what would YOU have said to justify your action on THAT day?

Feel free to browse the news sites for what they were reporting on THAT day, and explain if you think you would have been in the mainstream, a "boy crying wolf," or an influential leader moving an unaware city to act.

-PJ

177 posted on 08/29/2017 3:20:35 PM PDT by Political Junkie Too (The 1st Amendment gives the People the right to a free press, not CNN the right to the 1st question.)
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To: Political Junkie Too

The government had full knowledge, by Thursday afternoon (at the latest), that this was a catastrophic flood system.

That gives you 2.5 days to evacuated the highest risk areas. If you have a competent plan in place, you can begin that in a matter of hours.

They have no plan.


178 posted on 08/29/2017 3:32:54 PM PDT by ican'tbelieveit
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To: ican'tbelieveit
Okay, we're done.

I live here, and I've been giving you facts: timelines, data maps, news reports; and you've been giving me shoulda woulda coulda.

Unless you have something concrete to add, like answering the direct question of what YOU would have done given the information you would have had AT THE TIME, and explain how you would have answered challenges from business and government leaders, then we have nothing more to say.

-PJ

179 posted on 08/29/2017 3:56:42 PM PDT by Political Junkie Too (The 1st Amendment gives the People the right to a free press, not CNN the right to the 1st question.)
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To: Political Junkie Too

I WOULD HAVE EVACUATED HIGH RISK FLOOD AREAS, STARTING THURSDAY NIGHT! I don’t know how else to say that over and over and over in all of of my posts.

How about talking to people who handle western wildfires. They have to evacuate people. In a matter of minutes: We have a wildfire threatening your community, you have 15 minutes to get out. On two lane dirt roads. And they do it successfully.

Instead of “this is the way it is, I live here, there is nothing else we can do” attitude, how about: we are Americans. We can do better by our own citizens. We should not be failing them like this.


180 posted on 08/29/2017 4:12:06 PM PDT by ican'tbelieveit
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