Posted on 01/26/2017 1:06:09 PM PST by Rebelbase
On 8 may 1945, Germany surrenders.WWII in Europe is over. Europe is divided in half. Soviet in the east, Allied in the West.
But Who would have won if war broke out between the Allied and Soviets if they decided to declare all out war against each other in May 1945?
Allied even prepared a battle plain: Operation Unthinkable was a code name of a plan of a conflict between the Western Allies and the Soviet Union.
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It would have been a disaster!
We used up our three nukes and had none ready to go. The Russian industries had been moved beyond the Ural mountains, out of range of our bombers. Russia still had an uncommitted army in reserve, Alaska was now a target.
We were still at war with Japan and they might have come in on the Japanese side.
We were infiltrated with communists throughout government and the civilian sectors.
My dad, with Patton’s Army, always said we could have whipped them. I beg to differ.
Not only could the Germans have been rearmed, many Eastern Europeans would have joined the fight on our side. They hated the Soviet Union and would have fought to drive the Red Army.
>We used up our three nukes and had none ready to go. The Russian industries had been moved beyond the Ural mountains, out of range of our bombers.
The B29 would have been in range once we liberated east Prussia.
>Russia still had an uncommitted army in reserve, Alaska was now a target.
Russia had no armies in reserve and was completely out of manpower. All troops used in the invasion of Manchuria came from the western front. Nor could the Russians made any time of amphibious assault in the face of the US navy.
>We were still at war with Japan and they might have come in on the Japanese side.
And done what? There was no possibility of shipping troops from the mainland into Japan by 1945 given our total naval and air dominance.
>We were infiltrated with communists throughout government and the civilian sectors.
My dad, with Patton’s Army, always said we could have whipped them. I beg to differ.
You’re Dad was right and the primary reason we didn’t attack was those same commies hobbling the government who probably later killed Patton.
I read a pretty good history of WWII, and by the time our ground troops crossed into Germany no ground pounder wanted to the last man to spend the rest of his days with no legs. Supposedly, the army was having trouble getting the troops to engage the Germans. The infantry was at the end very prone to call for artillery and/or tactical aircraft to take of the Germans. There was also a steady stream of guys bugging out to Paris to make a pile of money in the black market.
>I read a pretty good history of WWII, and by the time our ground troops crossed into Germany no ground pounder wanted to the last man to spend the rest of his days with no legs. Supposedly, the army was having trouble getting the troops to engage the Germans. The infantry was at the end very prone to call for artillery and/or tactical aircraft to take of the Germans. There was also a steady stream of guys bugging out to Paris to make a pile of money in the black market.
I doubt that was an issue for Patton’s troops. They feared him more than the Germans.
The B-29s based in Iran could have hit any target ‘behind the Urals’. People need to stop thinking East-West and look at a globe.
Lend-Lease shipments of food, TRUCKS, tanks and aircraft would have ended. The food and truck cancellations would have had the greatest impact. The Soviets focused on tank and artillery production as well as fighter and ground attack aircraft. They did not have a strategic bombing force. The integration of former German Army may have been problematic, especially of the Waffen SS units. I’d have to look up numbers, but I think in manpower, the Soviets may have had more men ‘in the line’ than the Brits, US & French. Thus Germans are an interesting factor. Also, we had destroyed much of the German rail infrastructure, thus would have had supply problems akin to what we had in the fall of 1944.
And as Capt Obvious said, the US and British populations were tired of war. Additionally the British were at the end of their replacements. And we still had to fight the Japanese. US forces were beginning to be transferred to the US for demobilization and/or transfer to the Pacific in April 1945.
We would have won. Why?
1) Nuclear bombs.
2) We supplied the Russians with much of their food and equipment. The Russians rode into Berlin in American jeeps, for instance.
3) The Germans would have fought for us. They were exhausted, but they were battle hardened and even at the end of the war numbered in the millions.
4) Much of Eastern Europe would have flocked to our banners. Even in 1945 they were already tired of the Russians.
The Russian army had just over double the troops in the field as we did. However, the German casualty inflected/received rate against the Russians was 3-1. The Russian army would have faired even worse against US troops with our complete dominance of the air. we also had full access to the northen German ports to deal with supply issues while the Red army would have to Truck everything in from Russia.
Stalin stripped Siberia of it troops after December 7, 1941, when he knew that the Japanese would not be attacking in Manchuria. Those troops ended up being used for the late December, 1941 and January 1942 offensive to drive the Germans from Moscow. The forces Stalin used to attack in Manchuria in August & September 1945, had been shipped there from Europe.
Agreed, but a certain amount of reconstruction and clearing of the north German ports would have been needed because of 6 years of bombing attacks against them. And if we pushed back the Soviets, I’m sure the Poles would have risen up as well as most of the East European nationalities.
“We had nukes”
Yes we did. All past tense. We used the 2 workable bombs over Japan. There wasn’t a nuclear arsenal at that point in time.
The war was over. Our troops were tired and the Soviets would have home field advantage. Of course they were tired to BUT, we didn’t have commisars with machine guns ready to mow us down if we retreated. We didn’t have battalions of political prisoners to march through minefields clearing them for troops and tanks.
I think it would failed. The Germans were toast at this point in time as well.
There was no political will on the part of the Allies to fight the USSR. And the Soviets were exhausted from the war. Nobody would win because this was a fight that would never have happened.
Henkster’s Law.
Au contraire.
We had atomic bombs they did not. There would have been no need for battle. We could have instructed them to do exactly what we wanted. They would have complied but it might have taken one bomb to explain we were serious. Stalin’s birthplace would have been a good choice. Not a great deal of life would have been lost but it would have shown we were willing to destroy them from the air one city at a time. Not one American life would have been lost.
Truman was a fool in not taking this opportunity. He laid the ground work for the next 60 years of global conflict. He was a fool.
I agree. It was a war neither side had any interest in fighting. Stalin had a lot of work ahead of him to digest his Eastern Europe winnings and make sure those countries would be run by good little commies.
I haven’t watched the video. My only thought is that winning the war and winning the occupation are two different things.
Correct but our production facilities were at full force. We had the ability to turn them out like hot dogs in a few short months. We were supreme.
Good post, but in 1945 we had the bomb and the Soviet Union did not. We had the ability to dictate the fate of post war Europe and did not. This was a great error on the part of Roosevelt and Truman, mostly Roosevelt.
You speak of American troops using artillery a bunch at the end of the war.
When we fought a battle to take over the German city of Aachen in late 1944, the Germans used a bunch of snipers. It quickly got to the point that if a sniper was located (usually by shooting an American soldier) in a building, we’d use 155 mm howitzers to level the entire block.
Yeah, no one wanted to go home in a box or as a cripple, and we used our incredible material superiority to reduce casualties on our side.
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