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To: Yashcheritsiy

It’s no fair pointing out that Farmer John’s argument is circular and/or self-refuting.


176 posted on 01/11/2016 8:16:14 AM PST by Arthur McGowan
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To: Yashcheritsiy; Arthur McGowan; Jim Noble
From the OP: Any citizen whose citizenship is derived from an act of Congress is thus a naturalized citizen, constitutionally speaking, and thus not "natural born."

From #9: Wait a second here. Since the Constitution never actually defines the term "natural born citizen," and thus is falls to Congress to define that term, isn't its doing so by statute in effect (per the argument made in this post) making EVERYONE a "naturalized" citizen?

From #186 (responding to Jim Noble): It would seem to be implied in the fact that Congress gets to define, per their power to establish uniform rules of naturalization, what isn't a natural born citizen. The question of implied powers was pretty much settled from the very beginning, so yes, Congress does get to define it.

From # 176: It's no fair pointing out that Farmer John's argument is circular and/or self-refuting.

To #9 and 186:

(1) Congress has no particular authority to define terms used in (but not defined by) the Constitution, especially terms relating to the qualifications of the highest office of the Excecutive, one of the other branches "co-equal" with Congress. Congress can and did make rules concerning naturalization (how to become a citizen) without defining "natural born" citizens (those who are citizens already by right of birth).

(2) Why does the Naturalization Act of 1790 have the title that it does? Maybe because it is about "naturalization" (creating citizens from those not naturally born as such), and not about defining constitutional terms?

(3) Why doesn't the language of the Naturalization Act of 1790 read like a definition? If that langague defines "natural born" then why are persons born inside the US to US citizen parents not included?

To #9 and #176: Farmer John's argument (based on statements by the supreme court) is not circular. From the posted article, quoting the supreme court (Black dissent in Rogers v. Bellei):

Congress is empowered by the Constitution to "establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization," Art. I, § 8. Anyone acquiring citizenship solely under the exercise of this power is, constitutionally speaking, a naturalized citizen.

Accoring to the supreme court, you are a "naturalized citizen" under the Constitution if your citizenship is based solely on an act of Congress. (This does not make everyone a "naturalized citizen" under the Constitution, and does not make the argument circular. RTP. Read (the whole article), then Think, then Post.)

(Maybe Farmer John should have used the words "solely derived" in the sentence you quoted.)

203 posted on 01/11/2016 9:23:12 AM PST by Joachim
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