Posted on 11/10/2015 11:04:57 AM PST by w1n1
There's this thread on Reddit that stated:
For as long as I've had my AR, I've kept it equipped with iron sights only, on the theory that I didn't want to rely on a battery-operated sight. That's still true, but I'm rethinking my original choices and considering a scope or fiber optic sight. So, my question is two-fold:
Good for this guy. He seems to have finally woken up to the fact that an iron-sights-only build for TSHTF is suicide.
Let's stop and think about this for a moment — really think about it:
The batteries on many modern red dot sights last for 5 years of continuous use. If you somehow manage to survive for five years in a world that is so collapsed that common batteries are no longer in production, then congratulations, Snake Plissken, you now have your pick of iron sights that are laying around, as well as your pick of pretty much every other product of our once-advanced civilization.
Another thing: five years into TEOTWAWKI your gun is way more likely to be out of ammo than your RDS is to be out of juice. Read the rest of the story here.
Some rifles don't easily accommodate the installation of scopes and optics. For instance my FN-FAL is probably the most reliable detachable box magazine fed weapon I own. No provision was made by the designers for installing optics, but the iron sights are excellent.
When I used to shoot it a lot I was able to hit 20 out of 20 rounds on a 500 yard gong at the local long distance range.
I think this would be much more difficult with an Eotech than with iron sights.
And of course at shorter ranges iron sights are fast to acquire, and can also be used with both eyes open for those who prefer that aiming style.
The point of your article seems to be that battery powered aiming devices (which are, admittedly very nice for many scenarios) now have batteries that last a long time. OK, fair enough. I think they are a great choice for mounting on some rifles.
Something like a simple 2.5X fixed power scope doesn't require any batteries at all (unless equipped with illuminated reticle), and would be another excellent choice for a defense oriented rifle.
And, at the other extreme, for night work some night vision scope would be ideal, regardless of how many batteries you need.
Still: if you need sights that work in rain or sun, night or day, close or far and are extremely robust iron sights might still be your device of choice. Albeit they do require a little more practice time than an Eotech, so not a great choice for the "wife rifle" unless she's an avid shooter herself.
Ditto for the AR. I imagine most of us would be working at 150 yards or less 99%+ of the time.
As for the AK, I'm not putting $$$ into optics for a rifle that is not designed for sniper distances. For an AK at 100 yards you better be just as good with iron as with optics or you're not practicing.
My suggestion to someone that is fixed on optics, take a couple of Appleseeds. It will teach you / show you that for a civilian in real world SHTF, iron is a lot more effective than you think.
I found a place that makes a quick-release adaptor for the Bushnell TRS-25 red dot. That modded red dot works great on a 10/22 Takedown (fits in the tote bag), just have to use a picatinny rail with a groove down the center so the factory iron sights aren’t obstructed.
I live in a moderately dense suburban environment. If I’m dealing with a horde of zombies, I’m probably shooting at 50 to 100 yards. Find the EOTech coupled with a 3x magnifier makes that EASY. For closer in work, I’d flip the 3x magnifier to the side. Within 10 yards, I’d just point and shoot — good enough to hit center of mass consistently (say 90% of the time or so). For REALLY close in work, I’d go to my shotgun or katana...
The combo just works really well for me. Other people’s mileage may vary...
I have a Trijicon ACOG on my SCAR 17.
“And the older you get, the more important optics become.
I switch between an EOTech and a fixed 4X Burris.”
True that. I use a Burris 2-7x35.
One "prep" measure that I undertook back in 2009 was Lasik surgery. I didn't like the idea of being utterly dependent on prescription eyeglasses on the road ahead. Now, Lasik doesn't fix the near point accommodation problems that arise with age, so I still need reading glasses (which as not as big a concern).
I'm still okay with iron sights on handguns, or on rifles where the rear sight is a leaf type in front of the receiver. Rifles with aperture sights mounted further to the rear - those can be a problem for me now. Sure, I can use those optical doodads that attach to my shooting glasses, but that's not practical.
Hmm... does anyone make a "V" type rear sight for the AR? I think there's an HK style rotary drum rear sight - maybe that would work if I scooted it forward on the rail a bit.
This. I carried an ACOG equipped M4 for a year. It worked, and I would now settle for nothing less. Good piece of kit.
regards.
Of course, just how many current shooters are competent with iron sights? Damn few I suspect, unless trained by the Marines. Does the army even use iron sights for marksmanship training these days?
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Aimpoint Comp ML2 with co-witnessed Larue BUIS. They’re set for 150 yards.
Small laser set for 15 yards.
Batteries stacked deep for both.
L
ACOG and iron sights as backup. It’s not always about batteries—sometimes they break.
Hell, you can get an Aimpoint holographic sight that runs on AA batteries. Nothing more common than AAs!
I think the proper setup depends on your location and terrain.
If you’re in an urban/suburban area, in a Zombie apocalypse, you will be shooting close range. I like the EOTech that uses AAA batteries at those ranges, and I get mine (more than one) at a great price on Black Friday a couple years back. If you’re rural with woods, I still like the red dot sight. If you’re rural with clear lines of sight, I like a scope. Either way, I like iron backups, and I approve of training regularly with electronic and with iron, or with scope and with iron.
For everyone on FR, I strongly recommend waterproof sights. We tend not to be as skilled on the water as we are just about everywhere else we operate.
I prefer to drop a 16 inch projectile at 22 miles ;)
“No provision was made by the designers for installing optics, but the iron sights are excellent.”
I have an aluminum replacement top cover that has
a rail. I use a mil spec Aimpoint. I can still flip up the rear site and use it looking thro the Aimpoint. It has held zero perfectly.
I went that route based on Travis McGee’s review here of ACOG vs. EOTech red dot. Then there was this killer deal on Amazon before Christmas, and I made an impulse buy present for myself.
“Hey hon, you buy me a present yet? Yeah, don’t bother.”
Here, found it.
Fastest M-4gery in the East (Friday Night Gun Thread)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2537681/
Thanks Matt!
I upgraded to a green laser, very stout civilian copy of the military sized type that is the size of a pack of cigarettes. NO COMPARISON to a red laser. It’s visible in twilight at many times the distance as red, and in dark, it reaches WAY WAY out there.
Amen to that. I went all red dot on key elements of my armor ya couple of years ago. Now I'm happily back to nailing milk jug sized targets at 400 yards. The only rifle I've kept "traditional" is my NM Garand. In memory of what my Dad carried in WWII. I so sentimental. snif.
My Burris fixed 4X uses a 2032 type battery to light up the reticle in the dark, but even “off” the reticle is very good. As in, after all the batteries are dead, it’ll still be a good optic.
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