Posted on 08/15/2015 4:45:38 AM PDT by don-o
The autopsy reports for the nine men killed in the Twin Peaks Massacre in Waco on May 17 are a thicket of words that don’t seem to answer many questions. The reports may be as important for what they don’t disprove as for what they do or don’t prove. They do not for example, disprove the notion that all, or at least most of the dead men were killed by police using M-16s and FN P90 machine guns.
Thirteen of sixteen entrance wounds were .25 inches in diameter or smaller.
FN P90s fire a round with a diameter of .224409 inches. M-16s fire slightly smaller rounds with diameters of 0.218898 inches. All but one of the victims had wounds fired from a downward trajectory. Six of the nine dead had head or neck wounds. None of the wounds contained gunshot residue which indicates that the shots were fired from at least three feet away and probably five feet or farther away. The absence of residue casts doubt on claims by prosecutors of “Bandidos executing Cossacks, and Cossacks executing Bandidos.” Two of the dead had large wounds consistent with a 12 gauge shotgun slug. Ten of 16 wounds were in the back, indicating that the victims were running away when they died. Seven of the wounds were fired from right to left. Six were fired from left to right.
Nine millimeter bullets have a diameter of 0.35433 inches; forty caliber handguns fire a bullet that is four tenths of an inch in diameter and 357 magnums fire rounds that are about .357 inches in diameter.
Highly Deformed
Most of the recovered bullets were either highly deformed or fragmented which indicates they were fired by high velocity weapons and suggests those bullets were shaped like a swallow’s tail. Bullets fired from M-16s have a muzzle velocity of 3,110 feet per second. Bullets fired from FN P90s leave that weapon’s comparatively short barrel at 2,350 feet per second. Bullets generally leave the barrels of nine millimeter handguns at between 950 and 1,300 feet per second; 40 mm handguns generally have a muzzle velocity of between 1,000 and 1,200 feet per second; bullets leave a .357 magnum at about 1,500 feet per second or less; 38 Specials generally have a muzzle velocity of 1,000 feet per second or less.
Most police ammunition in the United States is designed to penetrate a human body to a depth of 12 inches and for that reason that ammunition is usually copper jacketed. Most of the bullets that killed at the Twin Peaks were copper jacketed. Bullets fired from high velocity M-16s, have a tendency to tumble after impact. M-16 rounds tumble because the tail of the projectile is heavier than the nose. The kinetic energy contained in the round has to go somewhere so the bullet tumbles, deforms and usually stops before reaching a depth of 12 inches. Most of the wounds described in the autopsies are consistent with wounds inflicted by M-16s. Both M-16s and FN P90s fire swallow tail shaped bullets.
None of the autopsies include ballistics information. Notations by eight pathologists involved in the autopsies describe bullets and bullet fragments in very general and inconsistent terms. One hundred fifty-one firearms were seized at the crime scene. Bikers usually carry small caliber pistols that range from small revolvers and derringers up to .380 automatics. Ballistic tests on the weapons seized at the Twin Peaks are being conducted by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. An informed source with knowledge of ATF procedures speculated that the tests would be completed in November.
rikkir said:
I saw esteves (?) original post the other day on this thread.
He was presenting as fact that anyone riding a motorcycle, and wearing a patch was automatically a criminal.
*****
Then, you are having hallucinations.
rikkir said:
He was presenting as fact that anyone riding a motorcycle, and wearing a patch was automatically a criminal.
****
Despite your lack of visual comprehension, there’s something you better understand here. Let’s start with this, and I’ll only include the relevant parts:
Sec. 71.01. DEFINITIONS. In this chapter,
(a) “Combination” means three or more persons who collaborate in carrying on criminal activities, although:
(1) participants may not know each other’s identity;
(2) membership in the combination may change from time to time;
(d) “Criminal street gang” means three or more persons having a common identifying sign or symbol or an identifiable leadership who continuously or regularly associate in the commission of criminal activities.
Sec. 71.02. ENGAGING IN ORGANIZED CRIMINAL ACTIVITY.
(a) A person commits an offense if, with the intent to establish, maintain, or participate in a combination or in the profits of a combination or as a member of a criminal street gang, the person commits or conspires to commit one or more of the following:
(1) murder, capital murder, arson, aggravated robbery, robbery, burglary, theft, aggravated kidnapping, kidnapping, aggravated assault, aggravated sexual assault, sexual assault, continuous sexual abuse of young child or children, solicitation of a minor, forgery, deadly conduct, assault punishable as a Class A misdemeanor, burglary of a motor vehicle, or unauthorized use of a motor vehicle;
(16) any offense under Section 46.06(a)(1) or 46.14; [this relates to illegal possession, use, or transport of a firearm]
Now, basically what this means is that since certain members of the aforementioned motorcycle groups have not been “squeaky clean” under the law, they qualify as “criminal street gangs” under Texas Penal Code. And, being a member of one of these groups gets you an automatic anal exam by law enforcement anytime they encounter you. And, playing dumb regarding your actions, or your membership in one of these groups, will not exclude you from this label. This means that anytime law enforcement has to deal with a collection of members of one of these groups, they are not going to take the time (or the personal risk) to try and figure out which one of you broke the law and which ones didn’t. So, my advice to you would be to forget the “Bandido, etc.” memberships, associations, bottom rocker patches, or anything else that associates you with one of these groups, and just go ride your motorcycle if that’s what you really want to do. However, if it boosts your testosterone level to run around trying to be one of these biker gang wannabe’s, the law will be glad to show you what it REALLY means to be a member.
Headshake.
I pity you.
The Constitution has long been an impediment to arbitrary acts of authority and let’s hope and pray that it continues to frustrate the fantasies of police statists.
Eastexsteve, if I am correct and you ARE in law enforcement, I beg of you: QUIT your job in law enforcement and go get a job in the military, because that is where your mindset belongs -- dealing with an enemy identified by insignia and assumed guilty on sight -- that is what SOLDIERS fight, and that's a good thing.
Cops, police, are civil servants. That means their job is to serve and protect citizens, even to risking their own lives in the doing, like firefighters do. Except instead of putting out fires, law enforcement civil servants' jobs are to help resolve problems, whether it's a domestic violence dispute or catching bad people who victimize innocents.
A soldier's job is to kill enemy combatants, said enemies identifiable by insignia. WAY TOO MANY cops confuse their jobs with those of soldiers. They need to join the military and leave police work to true lawmen.
There were ZERO lawmen at Waco on May 17. There were a lot of policemen pretending to be soldiers.
If policemen cannot catch criminals in the act of being criminals, then they have no business being policemen -- they are INEPT BOOBS and need to find another line of work, and leave catching bad guys to actual law men.
Seeing as how TWO THIRDS of the people arrested at Waco, whom you are convinced are gangster criminals on zero evidence except your own prejudices and templates, have ZIP criminal histories, it either means that cops in Texas are ludicrously lame idiots, OR it means that YOU are wildly mistaken and fantasizing when you claim that all those arrested are criminals who just hadn't been caught until NOW on trumped-up BS charges of guilt by association.
That you are even on Free Republic is very disturbing. You are a traitor to America and freedom.
2 excellent articles on the subject:
Militarization (of Police) Is More Than Tanks and Rifles: It’s a Cultural Disease, Acclimating the Citizenry to Life in a Police State
Militarization of Law Enforcement
http://www.americancowboychronicles.com/2015/05/militarization-of-american-law.html
No, it’s NOT the same thing. Unless, of course, the militia group you belong to has a history of violating the law. Militias are even established in the US Constitution. Biker groups with a history of lawbreaking are not.
Nice try though.
No, I’m not a cop. And, if it helps, I have a brother who is an officer in one of the aforementioned biker subgroups. I know how they think. I’m around them all the time.
Thanks for the link.
It has been a long time since I read anything by Douglas Casey.
I first read him back in the 1970’s. I flirted with Libertarianism back then. Until I saw what “Big L” Libertarians were.
Have always been registered as a Republican, but am a lover freedom and independence more than most. It is a product of being Texan and from experiences that some of my ancestors had. Most of that was not explained in detail, but the attitudes they carried were absorbed by the process of osmosis.
God Help the U.S. and We the People. May there be enough of us left to overturn the oxcart and right the ship of state without bloodshed. I’d say the bloodshed is likely.
By the way, I like the way you write. And the way you think. my friend.
Finny said:
That you are even on Free Republic is very disturbing. You are a traitor to America and freedom.
***
And, you’re a jackass who doesn’t even know me or what I’ve done. Chances are, I’ve put more sweat into guaranteeing that you have the right to get on here and make a fool of yourself than you ever dreamed of doing. What I’m arguing is the law. If you don’t like it, then call your congressmen and change it. Gangs like the Crips, Bloods, MS 13, Southwest Cholos, Los Zetas, and others would also love to see these laws changed. You’ll be in good company.
“the law is unconstitutional and oppressive of liberty - then what?”
Citizens need to go to their legislatures and demand redress, before anything else.
If the law is being applied too broadly, it needs to be clarified by legislative action and intent, from citizen will.
That is what eastexsteve said and I agree: “What I’m arguing is the law. If you don’t like it, then call your congressmen and change it.”
It is actually done all the time in matters small and large.
Challenge traffic cameras, etc. as is being done here. Go for it. Do not let judges interpret the law more broadly than legislative intent.
At the federal level, the Supreme Court, it is of course more difficult. Still, some of our Sovereign US States are challenging the Supremes. In Texas? In any State? Go for it. Politics is Local.
Robert Teesdale asks:
And if, in your deepest heart and according to your most sincere conscience you believe the law is unconstitutional and oppressive of liberty - then what?
*****
Laws are quite often oppressive of liberty. The question is: how much liberty are you willing to sacrifice in trade for maintaining order? If you believe the law crosses the line, then you endeavor to change it. Laws are not perfect. They are the product of imperfect beings.
Robert Teesdale then asks:
If by all reasonable judgment and sober analysis, the law is malevolently abused with ill intent, then what?
*****
Laws were often created with safeguards built into them to prevent this. But, there are remedies in case they fail. But, these remedies rely on evidence, and not speculation. The burden of proof always falls upon the accuser.
Robert Teesdale then asks:
Where you do you personally draw the line?
***
I generally follow the rule that ones rights end when they begin to impede mine to a greater degree.
Concurring bump...as Robert likes to say there are 'social consequences' how you dress, behave and associate with in public.
That knife cuts both ways.
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