Il: Bakery Shootout: no Restraints

Gun Watch ^ | 21 November, 2014 | Dean Weingarten

[marktwain]

I teach students to make a decision about being put under restraint before they get into a deadly force situation.   By restraint, I mean that the aggressor/attacker is attempting something, or commanding you to do something, that significantly reduces your options for resistance.  One of the simplest of these is for someone to aim a gun at you from a vehicle, and order you to get into the car.  It is almost always better to run for cover at that point.  Criminals do not want to move you somewhere for your benefit.

Other examples are: they are going to tie you up, move you to another location, put a hood over your head.   It could be as simple as commanding you to lie face down on the floor or go into a cooler at a retail outlet.

It is worth repeating: criminals do not want to put you under restraint for your own good.   It often ends badly for the person put under restraint.  I  recall reading a source that claimed that once you were under restraint, the chances of your survival dropped below 50%.  Academic studies and common sense indicate that resistance with a weapon are far more likely to be successful.

Make the decision now.  At what point will you resist?  I have made my decision.  If the criminal tries to put me under restraint, I will fight.  Pick your moment for optimum resistance.  The recent case in Atlanta is a good example.  Another is this case in Illinois, just south of Chicago.   From nbcchicago.com:

He said a pair of men came into the shop at about 3:30 p.m., took a couple of hundred dollars out of the safe, and then tried to force him and another employee to the back of the bakery. That's when the shop owner fired the weapon, striking one of the robbers.

"They had the money already, why would they ask us to go to the back," the owner said. "It just didn't feel right, everything happened so fast."

The baker acted quickly and decisively.  He shot one  robber seven times.  We do not know if the other robber was hit, because he escaped.  Let this be a lesson for disarmists in New York, such as Governor Cuomo, who claim that no one would ever need more than seven shots to defend themselves.

Another important point is the benefit to society that accrued from the Baker's resistance.  A criminal was put out of action for a considerable period.   It is likely that another will be caught and prosecuted.  Many crimes will be prevented as a result.   The police chief, Edward L. Gilmore,  supported the bakery owner. 

Calumet City Police Chief Edward L. Gilmore said the shop owner is a legal gun owner and was acting well within in his rights. Gilmore said it should serve as a warning to other would-be criminals.

"I think a message should be sent to all would-be criminals out there that business owners have a right to protect themselves," Gilmore said.

Police Chief Gilmore joins the ranks of chiefs who recognize the rights of citizens to self defense.  Perhaps he will join Sheriff Clarke of Milwaukee and Police Chief Craig of Detroit in actively supporting armed citizens.

 Definition of  disarmist 

 ©2014 by Dean Weingarten: Permission to share is granted when this notice is included.
Link to Gun Watch

[marktwain]

Your odds of surviving a gunfight are likely better than your odds of surviving being restrained by a criminal.

[Bryanw92]

>>Your odds of surviving a gunfight are likely better than your odds of surviving being restrained by a criminal.

Many people forget one of the important rules of a gunfight (or knife fight): “I’ve been shot (stabbed), but I am not dead. Keep fighting!” The corollary is “Just because they might get a shot off does not mean that you surrender!”

[humblegunner]

Steal much?

http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2014/11/il-bakery-shootout-no-restraints-3064804.html

Great source, too. Mmm hmmm.

[Bob]

Why are you posting a link to a site that stole the story from gunwatch.com?

[kanawa]

Shoots first, asks questions later.

[humblegunner]

The dates say that the other site had it first.

Am I mistaken?

[deport]

©2014 by Dean Weingarten: Permission to share is granted when this notice is included.
Link to Gun Watch

http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2014/11/il-bakery-shootout-no-restraints-3064804.html

[Bob]

The beforeitsnews site attributes the story to the gunwatch.com site. Did you even read the article there or did you just go by the date?

[humblegunner]

My bad.

Oh well.. bloggers steal stuff.
That’s “research” for them.

[Tijeras_Slim]

Beforeitsnews lists Dean’s site as the source. He’s a good guy HG and posts lots of great gun related articles.

Doesn’t excerpt either.

[deport]

Oh well.. bloggers steal stuff.
That’s “research” for them.

**************

Yep that’s for sure.

[marktwain]

The dates at Gun Watch are a day ahead because it runs on Australian time.

[Bob]

You falsely accuse a fellow FReeper of stealing and all you can say is “My bad”? Pretty pathetic excuse for what should have been an apology.

[humblegunner]

Pretty pathetic excuse for what should have been an apology.

Would an apology remove my assumption?

Nope.

I don't trust blogs and I'm not sorry for that.

[piytar]

I had a scumbag pull a gun on me. (Actually three times, but this story only addresses the first time when I was 17.)

My reaction was prompt and violent. I took the gun away from him, picked him up by the throat, and pinned him against a wall.

After he wetted himself AND I discovered the gun was a replica, I let him go (post some thrashing).

That said, if I had not done so, I do not want to think what might have happened.

Incidentally, it was a white trash punk. Heard a few years later that he managed to get himself shot dead.

The moral of the story: Resist. Violently. After all, I’m still here to tell this story. He isn’t.

[MileHi]

I don't trust blogs and I'm not sorry for that.

All well and good, 'gunner, but marktwains posts here speak for themselves. Belly up and say you're sorry.

[yefragetuwrabrumuy]

I would add an important point that supports this argument.

“Resistance significantly increases degree of difficulty.”

Robbing or otherwise oppressing someone is not easy for all sorts of reasons. Because of this, the robber or oppressor will often actively demand compliance. If they don’t get it, even by passively refusing their demands, what they are trying to do becomes harder.

Some experienced, professional muggers do not even present a weapon, nor are they armed. They count on their appearance to be so intimidating that they can just ask someone for their wallet, and as often as not, that person will just hand it to them. But if they refuse, the mugger just walks away. They grasp the problem.

But if the majority do not get compliance, they try to force compliance. And this is where active resistance radically increases the degree of difficulty of what they are trying to do. It becomes not just harder, but often insurmountably hard.

First of all, they are not doing what they want to do. Instead they are trying to shepherd people, and while the clock is ticking. If there are several people, they have to pay attention to all of them, as well as watching the doors, listening for sirens, and aware that the police may be on their way. Oh yes, and rob or whatever.

Their efforts at restraint at this point are just as likely as not a panic response instead of a plan.

Somebody in the room with concealed carry raises their degree of difficulty to astounding levels. With that, the robber is almost certainly going to lose, and lose big.

As a concealed carry holder, instead of immediately opening fire, you might be able to actually plan on maximizing your defense. Things like moving behind cover or at least concealment, getting the optimal firing angle while trying to avoid hitting others in the background, or conversely using one robber as cover from another robber. And making sure there is a round in the chamber and the safety is off.

Your resistance to restraint is making the robbers degree of difficulty near impossible.

[Lurker]

“Would an apology remove my assumption?”

It would remove the assumption that you’re a rude jerk, at least for me.

Probably more than a few others as well.

[SnuffaBolshevik]

"...marktwains posts here speak for themselves..."

Absolutely true.

marktwain puts tons of effort into posting gun rights articles from all across America and I look forward to them here on FreeRepublic.

Judgemental Eeyores, not so much.

[marktwain]

“As a concealed carry holder, instead of immediately opening fire, you might be able to actually plan on maximizing your defense. Things like moving behind cover or at least concealment, getting the optimal firing angle while trying to avoid hitting others in the background, or conversely using one robber as cover from another robber. And making sure there is a round in the chamber and the safety is off.”

You make some excellent points that bear repeating.