Posted on 09/13/2014 7:20:24 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
Rest in Peace, Sp6c. Joel. I’m honored to live in a nation that produces men like you.
Hand Salute!
(Though I hate the Army’s “Specialist” ranks.)
I arrived in Viet Nam on Nov 1, 1965. I was not an infantryman when I arrived but after this battle I was re-assiged from the 17th Cav to 1st 503rd and began my OTJ training as an infantryman.
I arrived in the company area shortly after the troops returned from this battle. When I asked what cot was to be mine I was told any without equipment was available since the original owners were not coming back. Over half the cots were available. At 18 this was my introduction to life in a Infantry company.
I met Joel a few years later at a 173rd reunion. Nice man.
The 8th of November
Thanks for the post.
But have to ask, why caused him to die so young?
I was a pre-commission ROTC cadet when the Army did away with the last of the SPC5's. During my time as an officer, I concluded that it was one of the biggest mistakes the Army could have made. Part of the rationale was that every soldier needed to be a leader, and so at the E-5 level they would be a hard stripe sergeant and have to do time as team and squad leaders, platoon sergeants, etc. in order to advance their careers. In a post cold-war Army perhaps it made some sense from a bean counter perspective, but it gave rise to some institutional problems in its real-world application.
Some people simply aren't cut out to be leaders, but may still have a strong sense of patriotism, desire to serve and be incredibly adept in their technical area. The Army lost some terrific mechanics, medics, etc. who wanted to practice their MOS, and had no desire to be a squad leader. They were truly efficient and proficient at their jobs in line units and would have made incredible service school/AIT instructors but were forced out or chose to get out. I had an E6 who ran the traffic section in my PM office in Korea. The guy was a better route planner than Transportation Corps MAJs and LTCs, and could walk up to an accident scene and tell you what happened, look at skid marks and tell you how fast the vehicles were traveling at time of impact (which would all be later confirmed by more formal reconstructions). They guy was making strong, viable contributions where he was, not only in the performance of his duties, but in the knowledge he was imparting on his subordinates (and his supervisors that were willing to learn from him.) IMHO he should have continued working in that or a similar capacity and allowed to retire at 20 as a SPC6 or even SPC7.
He was torn away from me to go be a squad leader in a Combat Support MP Company, a ticket he needed to punch for his career. He didn't want to do it. His true talents were wasted, and to be quite honest, he's the last person you or I would want to be your 18 year old son or daughter's squad leader should the norks have rolled across the border.
He was a 55 and almost 56, that’s not particularly young. But I have no idea. His injuries perhaps?
Good post.
The Army was also kind of schizophrenic in its "every soldier a leader," rationale, because that very same argument should have/would have been the undoing of the warrant officer corps, but not long after the Army did away with advanced specialist rank, they made the warrant officer corps even more robust by adding the rank of CW5 and actually giving commissions to warrant officers once they pinned on CW2.
I was in the 2nd Battalion 503rd. at this time. We had a great medic, Jerry Levy a true hero was later killed trying to retrieve a wounded GI.
The Army has never been known for being highly flexible in it’s institutional thinking with regards to rank/grade, leadership roles, schooling etc... Some of that has to do with locked in perceptions by senior grade officers and NCOs with their own agendas and some of it is budget/operational driven. Wartime has a way of cutting through the bs and fitting roles and ranks to what it takes to complete the wartime mission, but it’s usually a transient application that gets pushed aside in peacetime.
I can see your point. Though all non-coms should have “some” leadership experience. I think it’s the Marines who proclaim “Every cook a rifleman”. Though I always wanted to be Corporal rather than SP4. Maybe it’s just that I’m a hopeless romantic.
Agreed. Our Army has historically succeeded in spite of itself, and some of its biggest obstacles have been of its own making. It really is a tribute to the American attitude and spirit and our unique approach to warfighting. I don't think any other army in the world could function in the manner ours has based simply on culture. We have normaly taken a few bloody noses like Kasserine Pass or TF Smith, and bounced back smartly.
The problem I foresee is that the American culture is changing much more rapidly than the Army will be able to adapt, and it's going to have a horrible impact on our ability fight. I hope I'm wrong.
That's my point...technically speaking, specialists (at the E-4 level or above) were not NCOs, they were technicians.
Not only that, but the deeply embedded social engineers won't allow for any adaptations that doesn't fit their leftist agenda.
When you get about 20 years beyond that, that's young.
The Marine Corps does quite nicely with every E4 being a corporal and every E5 being a sergeant. Every Marine is a rifleman and if you’re not leadership material then you need to find another occupation before you hit the NCO ranks.
In case you hadn't noticed, the Army and USMC are two very different organizations with two very different missions. When I was commissioned as an Armor lieutenant, I seem to recall USMC lieutenants in my Armor Officer Basic Course. When I transitioned to the MP Corps and attended the MP Officer Advanced Course, lo and behold...there were Marine Captains in my class!...many of the courses were being taught by Army NCOs.
The USMC is a far more streamlined, efficient force by design, but it also relies on the Army (and Navy) to absorb a lot of the overhead so it can remain lean and efficient. As an example, in our OBC we had communications class learning the (at the time relatively new) SINGCARS radio system and associated comsec equipment. The class was taught by a couple Signal Corps NCOs who did a fine enough job, but I would argue that I, as an Army Armor lieutenant, and my peers who were USMC Armor lieutenants would have all been better served had the class been taught by a SPC7 who had spent their ENTIRE career doing nothing but servicing radios and COMSEC equipment, than a SFC who had spent PART of his career working with radios and the other part training soldiers to fire their weapons, dig fighting positions, inspecting uniforms, etc.
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