Posted on 08/22/2014 8:50:27 AM PDT by Roman_War_Criminal
So the wife & I are thinking on taking the plunge. I commute about 75 miles a day round trip to work & back. Based on that, I pay over $410 in gas/month on a paid car that is just getting more expensive to maintain.
Any other FReepers who are owners care to give your experiences?
Is it worth it?
Never had a “bad range”. Mighta been about 60 miles. Worst case was more a matter of poor driving choice, when m’lady drove it hither & yon with little consideration for range, having to come to my workplace and charge there before going home (actually was the first one to use the new public fast charger!). I’m considering trying to induce worst-case, probably this winter when it’s cold enough to turn the heat on full AND run the A/C at the same time (we tend to get a “wet cold” here), at night with lights on, with aggressive/erratic driving; will post result somewhere on FR then.
If you run the battery down enough (around 15 miles left), it warns you 5 different ways (including soothing voice intoning “Low battery charge!” and blinking distance indicator no longer telling available range). If you REALLY get it low, about 3 miles left, it enters “turtle mode” and slows waaaay down, like it or not, making it abundantly clear you MUST get to a charger NOW. The navigation package will show you where nearby chargers are, and max/min radial driving range on a map. If you truly run it completely out, Nissan will send a tow truck, for free, to take you to the nearest charger.
I hesitate using it for any trip going farther than half the reported range, just on grounds of not knowing if I’ll need to add distance to the trip along the way. Keep an eye on the max/min radial driving range on the map to know where you can realistically go.
It’s really a matter of knowing your limits, and functioning within them. Don’t be stupid, plan ahead.
Trickle charge is for home use.
Commercial chargers (what they’d have at work) run 220v and will do a full charge in 4 hours (8 if you opted, poorly, for the cheaper 3.3A charging package). Navigation package will notify you via text message that it’s done; paid chargers (often $1/hr) will jump to something like $20/hr after 4 hours so you don’t just leave it there not charging.
The longevity of the battery is mostly dependent upon how it is used. If you constantly run it down below 30% to 40% it will break down sooner. It should also be charged as slowly as possible. A difficult thing to accomplish with a car battery that is used daily for a commute of more than 10 or 20 miles each way.
The Li-Ion battery should last 6-8 years (current models).
Minor note for anyone buying a 2013 or earlier Leaf:
The Leaf runs the power train off the main battery, but all accessories off a regular car battery. The 2013 and earlier models did NOT connect them; there is an ongoing power drain (think “sleep mode” like computers) that can deplete the 12v battery if the car is unused/uncharged for 2 weeks; when that’s dead, just getting into the car becomes a problem, as does opening the charge port cover.
The 2014 model is smart enough to monitor the drain, and recharges the 12v battery from the main power train battery if need be.
Either it works for you or it doesn’t. Not right or wrong, just suitable for a limited range of drivers.
Any estimates concerning what percentage of original capacity exists at that point?
Just attach some playing cards to the spokes to make motor sounds and save your battery!
Dive is the best word!
Those kinds of cars will be the cause of mass deaths along our highways when an evacuation becomes necessary.
.
OH! One other extremely obscure observation:
Do you have a pacemaker?
I do (got at age 40), and - after committing to the lease - was startled to see the user’s manual full of repeated warnings about use by people with pacemakers. From what I know & gather, it’s more a matter of it being a high-power electrical device NOT designed with extensive medical considerations in mind. I don’t anticipate it discharging and zapping me, but assume the warnings are legal obligations that they haven’t assured the FDA it won’t be a problem for those of us. Talked about it with my cardiologist, and (after a quick call) he didn’t see it as a concern - just don’t be stupid.
I make a point of not fiddling with the charger until I am _done_ using the vehicle for a while, and never touch anything else when inserting/removing the charger plug, unplugging before I touch the vehicle otherwise. Just being reasonably paranoid given my situation; I don’t get close to chainsaws or other close-range gas engines that have alternators (like backpack-style leaf blowers).
In Zermatt, Switzerland, due to the horrible smog in the trapped valley, they mandated electrical vehicles except as really needed like larger trucks. When the switch happened, they ran down people like crazy. I was there in 1993; by then they had mandated sleigh bells, which fit this climbing/ski town.
I thought if I had one, I want two sounds, Top Fuel Dragster for acceleration, and steam engine choo-choo for steady speeds.
Don’t know off hand. At this point, I wouldn’t recommend buying one, just because the expected improvements in the next 2-3 years are significant. Battery replacement is somewhere in the vicinity of $10,000. Li-Ion batteries are noted for having a very rapid drop off at end-of-life.
I would not have considered that. Thanks
Well you drive a hard bargain!
Great write-up!
No most are the super-charge—If I get one I need to make sure I get that charging option. A lot of them don’t have that.
Can ya tell I like it? ;-)
Heck, I count ‘em on the road every day. See at least a dozen during each commute. Hey - saw EIGHT of them at the town library not long ago! Atlanta region is getting overrun by ‘em.
I look forward to the eventual collapse of the electrical grid - helped along by short sighted folks who imagine electricity grows on trees and will always be there whenever they need it.
Wait ‘til your home A/C gets cut off in August - but the bozo down the street gets to charge his electric car. It’s coming.
Elsewhere in this thread someone (maybe even you) estimated the battery cost to be about $10K. This translates to about $1,400 per year. This money, at $4/gal, buys 357 gallons of gas, and that is enough to drive 16,000 miles at 45 mpg in a hybrid or an efficient non-hybrid.
This means that Leaf becomes cheaper to drive (assuming electric power of zero cost) if one drives it daily not less than 43 miles. Since power is not free then we can say 50 miles.
It's an interesting balance. If you drive less than 50 miles every single day you will lose money on Leaf. But if you drive more then you have to charge it twice per day or risk losing power on a freeway. There were many articles that claimed that Leaf's range estimate is overly optimistic.
I believe you have a Leaf, so this is not to convince you of anything. (You already know all the facts firsthand :-) This is just a simple calculation that may be of use to someone who considers. I'm living high in the hills, so none of today's EVs will work for me.
Move then...you’ll NEVER break even on an “electric” car and NONE of them are made for the kind of mileage you’re talking about - rather they’re made to mostly sit in your driveway, so you can brag about it.
If you don’t believe me, read the SCATHING REVIEW on Edmunds regarding the Tesla that they drove. TOTAL GARBAGE.
Also, you need to at least double your gasoline cost to really add up your commuting cost, and then, to be complete, you need to factor in the time you’re losing by driving.
Like I say, time to move.
Well, here in Georgia the big motivation for getting a Leaf is the state pays you $5000 just for leasing it, so that turns your break-even math into $free (considering you’d be paying for gas if you didn’t) for 2 years. Hence there’s a LOT of them around here (northern suburbs of Atlanta, and the economic sense to get it). If not for that it would still be an interesting & suitable choice of vehicle, given the tradeoffs you note.
Given your math, it might just be suitable for me to buy one after the lease - especially as the dealer, dealing with a flood of EVs nobody wants anymore, might just make me a great offer to buy it instead of return it.
Time to start saving for the used Jeep I was eyeing before getting talked into the Leaf. Great little car, hope he technology makes it really competitive, but without subsidies it’s still hard to compete with used gas engines.
Actually, I was considering today that I’ve more options for alternate fueling than gas cars. Electrical grid goes down? haul out the propane-powered electrical generator, start that up, plug in the car, charge it off grid. Not sure how much mileage I’ll get out of a “gas grill” tank of propane, but gives me a buffer. I’ll start looking into suitable solar panels to ward off your next objection, with a 2-3kWh panel and lots of sunlight charging it indefinitely (a bit slow & unreliable, but better than the gas shortages we’ve experienced around here several times) ... oh, and the solar could run the A/C too in a pinch.
Yes, demand will grow and strain the system. Thanks to capitalism and free markets, such problems tend to get solved within sensible time.
Solve problems, don’t bitch about them. (Hmm...good tag line...)
They are like the Timex watches, they take a licking/beating and keep on working. The early Big Blazers were like that. We got one for our sons to learn how to drive, people would run into and need to be towed away. Our Blazer would need new glass over the lights maybe. Our oldest son used it for 5 rough years in college. We couldn't get parts for it after he graduated, and he ended up selling it in a bidding war in our driveway. He made enough to make a great down payment of a 4x4 Ford Ranger. He drove the heck of that until he got married and the first baby came along. Again he had a bidding war.
“He’d also go for an F150 or older Ranger. The 4x4 comes in really handy with our winters.”
You might consider getting a used Honda Ridge line. One of my BILs bought one after driving mine for a week. He traded an Avalanche in for it. They live in the Mid-West about 10 miles from a main road. It got so cold snowed so bad, his wife's Avalanche wouldn't start. So she drove his. That spring they bought another Ridge line for her. She has had about double the mileage and zero problems starting and traveling.
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