"The bravest are surely those who have the clearest vision
of what is before them, glory and danger alike,
and yet notwithstanding, go out to meet it."~Thucydides
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Posted on 05/13/2014 4:36:29 PM PDT by Kartographer
Loyalty is one thing that you need to “grow”, and it needs time to grow, that is why it makes sense to have prepared your group before SHTF, it may be slow process, and you need to be sure what kind of people you have there.
My SHTF experience was very bad from the perspective of what I saw when it comes to loyalty.
When you have big number of unprepared folks thrown in really hard situation like war, you can see all kind of examples, mostly bad one.
Yes, I saw people betraying their friends, or even families. Sometimes for the few more hours of life. Sometimes even for food.
(Excerpt) Read more at shtfschool.com ...
Preppers PING!!
The survival instinct under such conditions is not too far removed from one employee being asked to “stand up for” another employee in some work dispute. When livelihood may be on the line, you find out who your friends are! The same goes for survival. I wrestle with this as well. Do I spend the additional thousands to prepare for others who I have already accepted into my group? I guess in answer to my own question, I need to ask these questions now, by inquiring of these people how well prepared are they now.
Good point about family - people tend to be way too rosy on that view.
Group dynamics is important. With the flood and fires in my area people have already had experience working together. There is one person that I know not to trust. There are three other felons I need to find out about. There are a couple of big groups that formed and some smaller groups of friends. Politics did not matter so much but dealing with the problems at hand were the effort. There are troublemakers and sneak theirs in the area but group dynamics can control them. The people that flew out an evacuated the area left the keys to their homes with friends and said to take their food or whatever was needed.
What was your shtf that was so bad?
I always find your threads informative and interesting.
I am probably way to fatalistic. I stay prepared to the best of my ability but looking at the mobs at Walmart on Black Friday...what possible force could one have against people fighting for food for their families...or themselves.
I can’t honestly say that I want to be here to see the deterioration of trust and the spectacle that would ensue.
"The bravest are surely those who have the clearest vision
of what is before them, glory and danger alike,
and yet notwithstanding, go out to meet it."~Thucydides
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I think selco is talking about the much deeper issue of courage, trust and commitment on the level of life or death.
Skipping through all the crap - water boarded three times (yes - I finally gave them my age) slammed up against a tin shed walls and tricked into signing a "corrected" document that became a "confession", the last morning came after up all night in a cage the size of a dog house. We're all out there, cold and hungry, and the "guards" trot out one of our officers.
They put him on the water board and told the group he was about to be treated unless any of us wanted to volunteer to come up and take his place.
None of us stood up to take his place.
They gave it to him once - then again - then asked again if any of us wanted to relieve him on the board.
We all sat on our hands.
In retrospect the proper thing to have done would have been for any one of us - that one leader - to stand, and encourage others to stand... they couldn't water board us all.
But we sat on our hands until the school instructors correctly determined there were no leaders in our group, and gave up.
The National Anthem started playing - the red flag of the camp came down and the Stars and Stripes went up the pole - school was out.
What should have happened was every man-jack of us would have stood to replace the LT, and then the flag would have gone up.
We finished the school, but we all pretty much failed.
The cheering and crying and hugging each other was expected - they pulled the LT down off the water board and we all ate for the first time in a couple of days. It was oatmeal that had been stewing over a fire all night; it tasted terrible, but it was wonderful.
In 1976 I learned something about leadership, and compassion, how to not get tricked into signing a confession and how to go limp when thrown up against a tin wall. And next time - if, God forbid there is a next time for me, I'll be the one to stand up.
And that's why I'm here.
Understandable. But I will hold out as long as I can and terminate as many raiders as possible, to prevent them from getting to others who have had the good sense to prepare for their families. If I live long enough to see then end of the feral gaggles raiding, then my skills will be of good use to the survivors with whom I try to re establish a modicum of civilization.
Bosina
I was in SEE (survival, escape, and evasion) back in ‘73 (or ‘74), I believe, at Fort Knox. We did ok for the first mile dodging the enemy, took ravines, creeks, etc., on a moonlit night. But 5 guys is too many—too dam noisy. Me and another guy split away, but were eventually spotted. We both dropped into foot-high grass, I in shadowed grass (of a tree), and he, not shadowed. They got him, but missed me, no more than 4-5 feet from him. Couldn’t believe it. They hauled him off, and when clear, I boogied the last mile through the hills and valleys to the finish.
Should I have surprise assaulted them? Seemed a bit too much for the “exercise”.
It would have been interesting to be in the POW camp. I suspect they treated you guys worse than they would have me back then.
Thanks for your service!
Thank you for that
Listen now to what people who might be in your group say now in conservation.
When an extended family member wife asked her husband, who carries a 45 handgun, if he would shoot to save her, he hesitated, then said he might get in trouble if he shot. I knew right then I did not want this man standing with me in a SHTF serious situation. He is carrying that handgun for some kind of self important ego status. He isn’t going to shoot anyone even if his wife’s life depends on it.
Listen and remember what people say in conversation now while they are not under stress because that knowledge may save your life. I would have trusted this man but not now.
WOW! I have difficulty believing that. My wife and daughters are the sole reason that I carry.
I was stunned when he said it and the real kicker was, he hesitated so long before he said it. He was evidentially thinking what could happen to HIM if he shot, rather than saving her life.
You wouldn’t hesitate and neither would I to save someone I loved. And, besides, this is Texas. You won’t get in legal trouble here to save the life of a loved one - rather, you might get a medal. Watching that scene, brought home to me, sometimes you don’t know what family or friends really are under their skin.
You don’t need a war to see how people really behave and who to trust - just have a death in the family and watch vulture relatives fight over the STUFF.
Now imagine how those same people would act in a true SHTF scenario...
Do you carry when you are alone?
We had prowlers in the neighborhood last week for a few nights and that brought to light (as if I didn’t already have them pegged) who you do not want in your group. I called the neighbors to warn them and a couple of the city folk totally wimped out and hid under their beds. Disgusting. I tried to shame them telling them of the 90 year old disabled widow lady on a nearby street who chased the bad guys off her porch with a shot gun but the morons adjusted their rose colored glasses and pratically called me a liar. These pansy a-hats would sell anyone out in a minute. This event was eye opening on several levels not just on the sell outs but how some are so clueless they put targets on themselves and their property.
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