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To: JOHN W K
H.R.25 cannot repeal the 16th Amendment, only a constitutional amendment can do that. Additionally, the proposed amendment offered by the ring leaders of the fairtax if adopted would not withdraw Congress' power to lay and collect taxes calculated from profits, gains and other incomes. H.J.RES 104 is meaningless and a worthless effort to end taxes calculated from profits, gains and other incomes.

You are right. Now go back and read the entire post that includes the summary of the bill. Better yet, YOU read the bill. I posted a link for you. There are consequences if the 16th Amendment is not repealed. I don't think you are sincere. You are barely trying, not even reading the text of our exchange of ideas.

... Terminates the sales tax imposed by this Act if the Sixteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution (authorizing an income tax) is not repealed within seven years after the enactment of this Act.

141 posted on 05/13/2014 12:28:35 PM PDT by Tenacious 1 (Tagline deleted at the request of an offended FReeper.)
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To: Tenacious 1; All

Ok, so I read this thread but I’m still left wondering two things:

1. If we do nothing but try to vote our way out of the mess we are in, how can we reasonably expect different results? What’s that cliche, “Insanity is repeating the same effort over and over, expecting different results”?

2. With #1 said above, an issue that doesn’t seem to have been discussed on this thread yet is, “The state convention can only propose amendments, not remove old ones”

Well that’s all very well and good but that’s not even how old amendments were done away with anyway. Look at Prohibition. That amendment wasn’t “removed” from the Constitution, it was repealed when the 21st amendment was ADDED to the Constitution.

So if this state convention can add amendments, why do we think that it’s not possible for them to add an amendment repealing the 2nd? Or the 4th?

These concerns (#1 and 2) seem to be issues both in this debate don’t seem to be addressing on their respective sides.


142 posted on 05/13/2014 12:37:59 PM PDT by FourtySeven (47)
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To: Tenacious 1
The sunset provision you refer to is a carefully designed con job to keep alive Congress’ power to lay and collect taxes calculated from profits, gains and other incomes if H.R. 25 were adopted.

The text of the proposed fair tax reads:

TITLE IV--SUNSET OF SALES TAX IF SIXTEENTH AMENDMENT NOT REPEALED

SEC. 401. ELIMINATION OF SALES TAX IF SIXTEENTH AMENDMENT NOT REPEALED.

“If the Sixteenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States is not repealed before the end of the 7-year period beginning on the date of the enactment of this Act, then all provisions of, and amendments made by, this Act shall not apply to any use or consumption in any year beginning after December 31 of the calendar year in which or with which such period ends, except that the Sales Tax Bureau of the Department of the Treasury shall not be terminated until 6 months after such December 31.”

In other words, if H.R. 25 were adopted by Congress the 23 percent tax goes into effect immediately. But if after a seven year period, during which time the America People become use to paying and complying with the tax, and the Sixteenth Amendment is not repealed, Congress will end the 23 percent tax. And if one believe that baloney ….

But let’s pretend H.R. 25 is adopted and the Sixteenth Amendment is repealed under H.R. 16 before the seven year period. Well surprise, surprise! Congress still maintains power to lay and collect taxes calculated from profits, gains and other incomes because the wording of the proposed repeal does not withdraw Congress’ power to lay and collect excise taxes calculated from profits, gains and other incomes.

The fact is, prior to the adoption of the 16th Amendment the Supreme Court in Flint vs. Stone Tracy upheld the Corporate “Excise” Tax of 1909 which was an “excise” tax laid upon the “privilege” of being a corporation, and the amount of tax to be paid was calculated from the Corporations’ profits and gains! Although the tax is not an income tax as such, but an excise tax, it still allows Congress to collect taxes calculated from profits, gains and other “incomes”, which is exactly what we have now. And so, the repeal of the 16th Amendment is meaningless unless the wording of the repeal contains language I have been suggesting for years:

The Sixteenth Amendment is hereby repealed and Congress is henceforth forbidden to lay ``any`` tax or burden calculated from profits, gains, interest, salaries, wages, tips, inheritances or any other lawfully realized money

JWK

159 posted on 05/13/2014 2:46:26 PM PDT by JOHN W K
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