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To: roamer_1
No, I disregard nothing. But like the disciples of Moses not having authority to change Moses, Neither do the disciples of Yeshua have authority to change what HE said either.

That's true...But Jesus had the authority to change what he said...And he did, with the apostle Paul for one example...

Yeshua declares that His words will never pass away.

And his words did not pass away...We still have them...But that does not mean what was good for one group at one time is history stays the same all thru out history...God has been known to change course even in the Torah...

1Sa 15:1 Samuel also said unto Saul, The LORD sent me to anoint thee to be king over his people, over Israel: now therefore hearken thou unto the voice of the words of the LORD.

1Sa 15:10 Then came the word of the LORD unto Samuel, saying,
1Sa 15:11 It repenteth me that I have set up Saul to be king: for he is turned back from following me, and hath not performed my commandments. And it grieved Samuel; and he cried unto the LORD all night.

1Sa 15:26 And Samuel said unto Saul, I will not return with thee: for thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, and the LORD hath rejected thee from being king over Israel.

How then can Paul change his words? He can't (and in fact, he didn't). But if one is not cognizant of the fact that a disciple cannot change the words of his master, one can interpret Paul differently than what was intended.

You have to ignore too much scripture to come up with that conclusion...

Gal 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
Gal 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Paul received new instructions directly from the risen Savior...Paul did not consult the Torah...Paul did not consult the other apostles...He got it directly from Jesus Christ...

So if we can believe John wrote exactly what the Holy Spirit refreshed his memory with, then we certainly can accept and believe the scriptures that were acknowledged by Peter to be scripture written by Paul, based on what Paul wrote and not thru the eyes of the Torah...

715 posted on 03/07/2014 10:39:15 AM PST by Iscool (Ya mess with me, you mess with the WHOLE trailer park...)
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To: Iscool; roamer_1; af_vet_1981; metmom; boatbums; redleghunter
>>But that does not mean what was good for one group at one time is history stays the same all thru out history...<<

Therein lays the heart of the problem most people have with understanding scripture. Those who deny the different dispensations or ways God managed His dealings with man will never understand scripture as we have seen in these threads. It takes some incredible mental gymnastics and outright denial of some scriptures to try to explain many portions of scripture regardless of what type of theology they attempt.

Paul said we are in a dispensation of grace.

Ephesians 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, 2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

He said we are now made righteous without the law.

Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

There is no way to understand what that “dispensation of grace” is in relation to the statement by Jesus that not one jot or tittle shall pass from the law without understanding that once the fullness of the Gentiles has come in God will once again deal with Israel under the law until they accept Jesus as their Messiah at the end of the tribulation period.

721 posted on 03/07/2014 12:47:12 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: Iscool
[roamer_1:] No, I disregard nothing. But like the disciples of Moses not having authority to change Moses, Neither do the disciples of Yeshua have authority to change what HE said either.

That's true...But Jesus had the authority to change what he said...And he did, with the apostle Paul for one example...

Structurally, no he did not, because the change defeats the primary proof of YHWH - That He IS in control, that he can predict, and therefore, no word ever will come back empty.

And secondarily, in order to prophesy and be heard by the people, what is being said cannot contradict Torah, as Torah (and the prophets) define a false prophet as one who transgresses the Torah (and the prophets). So if it is Yeshua's (or Paul's) intention to be heard, what is said cannot transgress the Torah. PERIOD.

[roamer_1:] Yeshua declares that His words will never pass away.

And his words did not pass away...We still have them...

No, it isn't that we have them. He means His words will not change. Just like the Torah will not pass away.

But that does not mean what was good for one group at one time is history stays the same all thru out history...

YES IT DOES mean one thing is good for ALL groups through all time.

God has been known to change course even in the Torah...

Not when it makes him out to be a liar, nor when it causes his prophets to speak untruly.

[roamer_1:] How then can Paul change his words? He can't (and in fact, he didn't). But if one is not cognizant of the fact that a disciple cannot change the words of his master, one can interpret Paul differently than what was intended.

You have to ignore too much scripture to come up with that conclusion... Paul received new instructions directly from the risen Savior...Paul did not consult the Torah...Paul did not consult the other apostles...He got it directly from Jesus Christ...

But Yeshua IS YHWH and YHWH does not change. So what he was given STILL cannot contradict what came before... And there is no private revelation... You should know that...

So if we can believe John wrote exactly what the Holy Spirit refreshed his memory with, then we certainly can accept and believe the scriptures that were acknowledged by Peter to be scripture written by Paul, based on what Paul wrote and not thru the eyes of the Torah...

You aren't getting what I am saying. I am saying that what you see in Paul's words isn't what he is saying. It can't be, or he is a false prophet.

728 posted on 03/07/2014 1:09:45 PM PST by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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