Posted on 08/07/2013 6:29:11 PM PDT by Seizethecarp
Let's suppose that after a great deal of controversy our city council votes 3-2 to place a street light at the main intersection of our town. I have a doubt about the eligibility of Councilman A (who voted yes) to legally serve as a city councilman. At a City Council meeting, I asked Councilman A to prove that he is eligible, but I was dismissed as a crackpot and removed from the chambers by security.
As I approach the street light the next morning, it turns red for my lane of traffic. I am having the same kind of "conscience wracking" disorientation that Colonel Lakin had because it hasn't yet been proved with certainty to me that the street light was legally approved by a legally constituted City Council consisting of five eligible councilmen.
Should I stop or even slow down for the red light?? What about my conscience?
Answer the question I asked you. Why would Obama not put Lakin’s conscience at ease since it would have required so little, would involve absolutely no risk, and would actually have alleviated concerns of a LOT of people? Why would he possibly have withheld that?
I am disgusted by your flippant comparison that makes a mockery out of the Constitution, the oaths of office, and the seriousness of war. I’ll hold my tongue so I don’t say something I’ll later regret.
I don’t understand how an amended or late filing placed in the HDOH file in 2006 could legally allow Onaka to “verify” Kapiolani as the birth hospital, the signature on 8/6/61 by the mother and the signature on 8/8/61 by the attending physician and still be an honest man.
IMO, Barry have been acting all along as though he is hiding a foreign birth that would threaten his eligibility, especially given is mom’s age. A late or amended report of an HI birth might claim a home birth, for example, but I seriously doubt that such a late or amended report would claim a Kapiolani birth and also claim retroactive signing dates for the mom and attending.
In the event that Barry was actually born at Kapiolani, for example, but adopted by Lolo in 1967 or re-adopted by BHO Sr in 1971 then perhaps the original BC in the HDOH archive has lots of writing and cancellations on it including name changes associated with the adoption. This might be embarrassing to Barry. If this were the case then Onoka could verify the original pre-adoption BC.
As I write this I am recalling the INS FOIA letter of April 12, 1961 (IIRC) in which the plan for his adoption out to the Salvation Army was discussed. Could it be possible that adoption papers were drawn up at or shortly after the birth (despite the newspaper announcements) but Stanley Ann changed her mind and took the baby to Seattle.
In that case a different, as yet unknown set of adoptive parents arranged by the Salvation Army might be in the vital record file on a LFBC that was subsequently amended.
Just some thoughts to try and rationalize Barry’s fight to the death to prevent legally producing original LFBC image in any court.
What I DO know is that I make decisions to comply with laws every day of my life even though I am NEVER absolutely certain that any of those laws were all passed by persons who were eligible to pass the laws. I don't require absolute certainty.
Several days ago, I learned that, notwithstanding five years of intense investigation, many of you have not yet come to any conclusions regarding the identity of Obama's father, the identity of his mother or the place of his birth. Five years = not a clue. I'm not saying you should give up. I don't want you to give up. I just don't want anyone to pull this on Cruz.
I believe that I will continue to stop for the red lights.
Hope they go through impeachment hearings so we can get discovery and hope they also bring up all the other scandals to impeach Obama.
Adoptions result in new BC’s being created, not amendments to the original BC.
The short answer: the HDOH created a new, fake BC for Obama based on law enforcement saying after the Giffords shooting that it was necessary to protect Obama from the crazy violent birthers such as those in Arizona. In such cases the fake BC will say whatever law enforcement says is necessary to protect the registrant. The rest of this comment will give some more detail. Ignore it if you’re not interested.
Bennett requested that Onaka verify, in addition to the items from the enclosed application form, other items FROM THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE. That wording provides a critical loophole for Onaka. Those words could mean “verify the truth of these facts that are claimed on the BC” or they could mean “verify that these facts are claimed on the BC”. Onaka never used a sentence saying exactly what he was verifying about those things, and on the dates he didn’t use the format that Bennett gave him but gave exactly the format that is on the White House image - as if he was providing a photocopy of those items FROM THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE.
The only way we know which way Onaka interpreted that is by looking at how he handled the rest of the request. He told us that the information that is contained in the White House image matches what is contained in the record. So if the record was legally valid he would have to verify the truth of every “fact” that Bennett submitted for verification. He didn’t. He didn’t even mention the gender, date, island of birth, mother’s name, or father’s name, and his mention of Honolulu only said that the BC “indicates” that Obama was born in Honolulu. In legal terms, that just means that the BC claims it. So the only thing that Onaka actually verified as true, in a sentence that is clear, is that they have a BC for Obama on which Honolulu is mentioned as the birth city.
Onaka had to verify everything he could. If the BC was valid Onaka would have to verify that Obama was born male, that he was born on Aug 4, 1961, that Honolulu is on Oahu, that Stanley Ann Dunham was the mother, and that Barack Hussein Obama was the father. He verifies none of those things, and the only lawful reason is if the BC itself is non-valid. And if the BC is non-valid, then Onaka had to interpret “FROM THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE” as meaning “verify that these items are on the birth certificate”.
But the thing that caught the eye of a lot of us immediately were the initials next to the signature stamp. Why distance himself? Onaka was personally swearing to the truth and lawfulness of his statement and yet he made somebody else take responsibility for stamping his signature so that he could always say he was never asked about it and was unaware of what was done.
Then there was even one step farther: Onaka has his own raised seal which he uses for multi-state self-authenticating legal copies of vital records every day..... and yet he would not put his raised seal on the document to authenticate his signature. Fuddy had to put her own raised seal, which by statute is required to be placed near her signature. But she wouldn’t sign it.
So even if somebody argued that Onaka had to be interpreting “FROM THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE” as meaning to verify that those items from the BC are true, there are 2 OTHER layers of deniability if a charge of perjury ever came up - the initials, and the mismatched seal and signature.
As to how the claim of a Kapiolani birth and an Aug 11, 1961 filing date could be on the BC, you have to look at one other thing: he also says the 10641 is the BC# on the BC. According to what Verna Lee told Corsi on tape (and supplementing it with what the CDC reported about the number order on the HI BC microfilms), that BC# had to belong to the 3rd Honolulu birth after Gretchen Nordyke. Almost certainly Stig Waidelich, whose BC# on his HDOH-issued COLB is way too high to be accurate. So we’ve got 2 BC#’s that the HDOH has shown on documents that could not have been on those BC’s in 1961. Too coincidental, too related, and too far off in the numbering to be two random accidentally-misfiled BC’s. So what that tells us is that the HDOH is switching around BC#’s. The only legal authorization for someone to be given a BC# that is different than the one originally issued to them is if a totally new BC is created for a person, in addition to their original BC, at the request of law enforcement which says that a new BC is necessary to protect the registrant. When a new, fake BC is created at the request of law enforcement, that new BC has to have a different BC# than the original BC had, and the BC will claim whatever law enforcement says it should claim. So if law enforcement says it should claim a Kapiolani birth with a filing date of Aug 11, 1961, then that is what it will say - even if that is totally fake.
This scenario fits the available evidence. According to the HDOH and an OIP attorney, Obama amended his BC (in 2006, according to a UIPA response I received). According to former OIP Director Paul Tsukiyama, his file includes affidavits to support the claims on his BC. That would not be necessary for a Kapiolani birth, so Obama’s original BC apparently did not claim a Kapiolani birth. More likely, it was an unattended birth reported by Madelyn Dunham to registrar Verna Lee. It probably had to be amended in 2006 to add missing information so that the record would have all the required information - without which the HDOH cannot print out even a COLB. Amending a BC (with a major administrative amendment) results in a non-valid BC so the only reason to do a major amendment is if the BC is already non-valid and so you’ve got nothing to lose by amending it. The reason for it to be non-valid before the amendment is if it was not completed within a year of the birth.
So what Onaka revealed in the letter of verification strongly suggests that Madelyn Dunham reported an unattended birth for Obama but the registrar was not able to gather all the necessary information within a year. In 2006 when Obama was considering a run for Presidency he tried to get a copy of a HI BC but was told he couldn’t get a copy because his BC was incomplete. So he submitted some kind of affidavit to complete the BC and thought he was fine because the item that was amended (birth weight, I believe) doesn’t even show up on the part of the BC that is printed out for the public. He ordered a copy in June of 2007 but when he got it, he saw that it had the LATE and ALTERED stamps on it. So they had to forge a BC for the passport file. They needed a BC# so they got Stig Waidelich to agree to let Obama use his. The forged COLB was made public, trying to hide the BC# but when people didn’t buy the genuineness of the COLB they used the trophy photos of the COLB with Stig’s BC# to show the public. They expected everything to be fine. But it wasn’t, and eventually when the state eligibility bills came up the Obama handlers realized they were possibly going to need a long-form, which was going to require the HDOH to fabricate documents. At a time when the dems were gonna need all the help they could get to try to keep the House, Abercrombie announced he was quitting Congress to run for HI governor. One of the first things he did was to appoint Neal Palafox as the interim HDOH Director. Not long after that he gave interviews to NYT, LA Times, etc saying he was going to make Obama’s long-form available for the public to see, to head off troubles from state eligibility bills. Arizona had enough R’s elected in the 2010 landslide to overturn a Brewer veto if necessary and it was a real threat. But they had to get the HDOH to give Obama Stig’s BC# so the official record would match the previous forgery, and the only way to do that was by getting law enforcement to say that Obama was in danger from the “birthers” such as the Surprise Tea Party in Arizona... Since the Tea Party started the media had been harping on how violent they were and liberal plants had tried to substantiate that belief but it wasn’t working. Some high democrat said that Obama needed another OKC bombing....
Around that same time Jared Loughner’s seeming schizophrenia turned violent. He bought a gun... He went on a shooting rampage that injured Gabby Giffords and killed Judge John Roll, a judge of great integrity who would probably have heard a challenge to an AZ eligibility bill and who wasn’t likely to be threatened or intimidated into ruling against his conscience and the law. Immediately Sheriff Clarence Dupnik, Janet Napolitano, etc blamed the violence on those AZ hicks who are so violent and so backwards that they question Obama’s eligibility...
Suddenly grounds for law enforcement to say that Obama had to be protected from “birthers”. Amazing!
But Palafox and Onaka balked. A Star-Advertiser columnist asked for an update on the quest to make Obama’s BC public, and Abercrombie said the investigation had actually found something written down. That piqued the curiosity of Mike Evans, who called Abercrombie and heard that there is no proof of a Hawaii birth. Within about a week Palafox was asked to resign, with the AG’s office spreading rumors that he was being investigated for medical billing fraud and with Abercrombie and Okubo saying he resigned for personal reasons, not because he was asked to resign. But Palafox resisted, telling the media that he didn’t know why he resigned, and eventually Abercrombie had to admit that he had lied; he DID ask Palafox to resign but wouldn’t say why.
Fuddy replaced Palafox and instantly set about making it so that the HDOH would not have to issue long-form copies. Around then, WND’s source within the HDOH said that they were struggling over how to reconcile the BC# problem. They apparently decided to switch BC#’s around to make it look like BC’s were numbered alphabetically, and eventually had to give up on that so they numbered Sunahara’s BC so that nobody could find any rhyme or reason to how BC’s were numbered.
At the request of law enforcement they created a new BC that said exactly what law enforcement said was necessary to protect Obama from the “crazy Arizona racist birthers”: a BC that looked like a routine Kapiolani birth, with the same BC# as the Obama handlers had put on Obama’s forged BC for the passport file and that was shown to the public.
But even at that they had a problem, because Onaka knew that a new BC was only authorized to be made for somebody who was actually born in Hawaii, and the non-valid original record for Obama wouldn’t allow Hawaii to presume that Obama was born in Hawaii. Onaka has the authority to refuse to issue a certified copy of a BC if he knows it was obtained through fraud. In this case, the fraud was done by HDOH Director Fuddy, who ordered him to create the new BC even though Onaka knew it was illegal. To keep Fuddy and Obama from getting away with the fraud, Onaka allowed Fuddy to think all was well as she watched him copy the long-form but when she wasn’t looking he added the smiley face to his signature and stamped it with a stamp that had TXE on it. Unbeknownst to Fuddy, the person who created the forgery put in typing and alignment anomalies as well. And Onaka stamped it with LATE and ALTERED.
When the BC arrived in DC they had a problem. They had to get rid of the LATE and ALTERED stamps, and they had to do it in time for Obama to present the BC at a press conference before quickly getting on a plane to Chicago so he could gloat on an Oprah show in front of the low-information masses. In the haste to get the alterations made, they didn’t get the security background right. They copied swatches from part of the background and copied the swatch to create an entire page without realizing the result would NOT look like the real paper the HDOH uses. They had to apply a raised seal but had to make it so vague you could never tell what it was.
When it came time for Bennett’s verification request, the HDOH already knew they couldn’t issue a verification for Obama. They had been preparing to refuse all verification requests for some time, as I’ve noted. Okubo told me that there are no verification forms because they don’t issue verifications. Another worker privately told someone that all verification requests were being stalled by the AG’s office so it wouldn’t seem odd that they would never issue a verification for Obama. They stalled on Bennett’s request and only finally did anything when Bennett first said he might keep Obama off the ballot if they didn’t provide a fig leaf for him, and then said that he would put Obama on the ballot as long as they sent him SOMETHING. So they sent him a verification that Obama’s BC is non-valid and he put Obama’s name on the ballot. TPM Muckraker hid the actual application form so nobody would know what Onaka should have verified if the record was valid, and since then the legal threats have been handled by threats to the challengers (for instance, in Kansas).
It’s late. This is much longer and more involved than you asked for. I just wanted you to know that there are a lot of factors that go into this theory/analysis. There’s a lot that I haven’t said, some of which I really can’t say either for strategic reasons or because my sources haven’t given permission.
Are you disgusted by his willingness to throw our military men and their consciences and honor under the rug by playing “chicken” with their honor and lives rather than simply show a document that has nothing embarrassing on it at all?
Lakin was willing to give his life’s savings, his career, and his good name when he thought his country needed him to do so. I am disgusted that Obama is willing to give NOTHING - zero, absolutely zippo - for this country or for the men who defend her. Not even show a routine paper that poses no threat or inconvenience to himself whatsoever. He was willing to give -1 million and gladly took it right out of the hands of those who love and serve this country.
That you would consider Lakin to be the sad part of this story reflects very, very, very, very, very badly on you, TF.
First, he may have understood that "politics is the art of the possible" and he realized that it would never be possible to meet impossible standards of proof.
Second, he might very well have believed that the birthers were helping him politically by making it appear to many that some of his opposition had stepped off the deep end of the pier without a raft or the ability to swim.
Again, it is probably impossible to find anything to be 100% certain about in this world. However, I am about 99.5% certain that history is going to record that Obama was born in Hawaii to an American mother (Dunham) and a Kenyan father (Obama, Sr.). History may be wrong in that regard, but after five years of intensive investigation and discussion, the birthers still have "no idea" who his father was, who his mother was or where he was born. Well, history books just aren't going to leave issues like that open forever so if y'all want to warrant even a footnote, y'all better come up with some ideas very soon.
You say that "Lakin was willing to give his life's savings, his career, and his good name when he thought his country needed him to do so." Didn't he also have a wife and family? What he did was foolish, thoughtless, selfish and arrogant. There hasn't been a day in our history when some soldier could not have decided that he hadn't seen enough documents to be absolutely certain that the president was eligible. On the night before D-Day, a soldier could have explained, "Well, you know, I want to get on that boat with the rest of you tonight, but I haven't yet seen FDR"s birth certificate so I really can't join you. Maybe I can catch up with you guys later."
And a lot of German soldiers “just followed orders”. Anything Hitler ordered done was lawful once the Reichstag gave him full power in 1933, and every German could have said the Ten Boom family were SELFISH for not obeying the orders to turn over all Jews to the government. In fact, I’m sure that most Germans of that day WOULD HAVE called them selfish.
On the day of reckoning I would much rather be standing in Lakin’s shoes than in theirs. Or yours. Or Obama’s.
You consider Obama the wise one and Lakin selfish. You’re deceived, just like a bunch of people who think they are wise, and that makes me sad beyond words.
The “Impossible” ?
He wants to govern other peoples lives and they simply ask for his credentials, and he plays games with that request?
Maybe it’s all very simple. Maybe he’s just a run of the mill, typical, communist, sleazebag Democrat... ?
‘On the night before D-Day, a soldier could have explained, “Well, you know, I want to get on that boat with the rest of you tonight, but I haven’t yet seen FDR”s birth certificate so I really can’t join you. Maybe I can catch up with you guys later.”’
Post a link to the well-documented fact of FDR claiming, in writing, for upwards of a decade, that he was born in a foreign country. I’ve never heard that about him, but it must be true. That’s exactly what Obama did, & since you compared his case on a one-to-one basis w FDR, there must be crucial parallels.
Otherwise, it was just a pointless, idiotic comparison, & the discussion wd have been better off w’out it.
“impossible standards of proof.”
Get real. A certified BC is mundane.
Who was Obama's father?
Who was Obama's mother?
Where was Obama born?
You perceive the problem, yet excuse and defend it’s perpetration and mock those who point out the problem.
Good day to you.
Don't quit now! ;-)
“Well, the fact that after five years this investigation has come to no conclusions about anything’
That’s not true. We know that the Maricopa County Sheriff’s Office Cold Case Posse has found the birth certificate produced on April 27,2011 to be 100% forged. That is backed by Hawaii independent forensic handwriting and computer-document expert Reed Hayes in a 40 page report. And the Cold Case Posse has concluded with proof that Obama’s selective service registration card is 100% forged.
If I remember correctly, the questions were:
“Who was Obama’s father?
Who was Obama’s mother?
Where was Obama born?”
Do you have reason to believe that the CCP and/or Reed Hayes have shed any light on those questions? You seem to know more about their efforts than the rest of us.
I suggest that butterdezillion’s long, detailed scenario be considered to be pinged to all eligibility ping lists. Key passage excerpted below. Butterdezillion suggests that Fuddy at HDOH directed the forgery of Barry’s LFBC and makes her case for it. I tend to believe that Barry’s team did the forgery and had it inserted into the HDOH vital records with the complicity of Fuddy and Onaka.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/3052270/posts?page=406#406
key butterdezillion excerpt (IMO) which explains some remaining pdf copy issues of the thread topic:
“Fuddy replaced Palafox and instantly set about making it so that the HDOH would not have to issue long-form copies. Around then, WND’s source within the HDOH said that they were struggling over how to reconcile the BC# problem. They apparently decided to switch BC#’s around to make it look like BC’s were numbered alphabetically, and eventually had to give up on that so they numbered Sunahara’s BC so that nobody could find any rhyme or reason to how BC’s were numbered.
“At the request of law enforcement they created a new BC that said exactly what law enforcement said was necessary to protect Obama from the “crazy Arizona racist birthers”: a BC that looked like a routine Kapiolani birth, with the same BC# as the Obama handlers had put on Obama’s forged BC for the passport file and that was shown to the public.
“But even at that they had a problem, because Onaka knew that a new BC was only authorized to be made for somebody who was actually born in Hawaii, and the non-valid original record for Obama wouldn’t allow Hawaii to presume that Obama was born in Hawaii. Onaka has the authority to refuse to issue a certified copy of a BC if he knows it was obtained through fraud. In this case, the fraud was done by HDOH Director Fuddy, who ordered him to create the new BC even though Onaka knew it was illegal. To keep Fuddy and Obama from getting away with the fraud, Onaka allowed Fuddy to think all was well as she watched him copy the long-form but when she wasn’t looking he added the smiley face to his signature and stamped it with a stamp that had TXE on it. Unbeknownst to Fuddy, the person who created the forgery put in typing and alignment anomalies as well. And Onaka stamped it with LATE and ALTERED.
“When the BC arrived in DC they had a problem. They had to get rid of the LATE and ALTERED stamps, and they had to do it in time for Obama to present the BC at a press conference before quickly getting on a plane to Chicago so he could gloat on an Oprah show in front of the low-information masses. In the haste to get the alterations made, they didn’t get the security background right. They copied swatches from part of the background and copied the swatch to create an entire page without realizing the result would NOT look like the real paper the HDOH uses. They had to apply a raised seal but had to make it so vague you could never tell what it was.”
"Mike Zullo, ladies and gentlemen, he couldn't, he could not investigate a flat tire. He is a fraud, 110% fraud. The question I pose today is what has Mike Zullo done besides flap his gums? He has done nothing, absolutely nothing but run his mouth."
After all these years of financial contributions and investigations, has Mike Zullo figured out the identity of Obama's mother, the identity of Obama's father, or the place of Obama's birth? Is he still just totally baffled? Does he just need more money?
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