Posted on 05/11/2012 6:10:55 PM PDT by Manic_Episode
I’ve not replied to you because I’ve not had a chance to watch the entire interview, but barring the unforseen I would be very happy to vote for you Sir! Perhaps more.
Thank you.
We’re running a completely grassroots old-fashioned front porch campaign, albeit with a twenty-first century twist. So, I have time to actually talk to real folks. Drop me a line if I can answer questions you might have about what we’re trying to do.
You can also talk directly to me, and many of our other leaders from across the country, on one of our twice-weekly America’s Summit, Restore the Republic, calls.
http://www.americaspartynews.com/talk/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=7216&posts=9&start=1
Our scripture was recorded by men, but was inspired by God and is not contradictory when properly understood.
When you run into an apparent contradiction, you need to step back and examine the verses and context more carefully. Sometimes consulting other Christians and commetaries will point out what you are missing.
The verse you quoted doesn't actually mention salvation, so you need to be careful about assuming it does, when such an assumption runs counter to other verses that are clear and unambiguous.
The context of that verse is in preparing the vine to bear more fruit, not in preparing the believer for heaven. There are at least a couple of ways that verse can be understood. "Taken away", can refer to removal from earth. It may also refer to pretenders who profess Christ but have not internalized that with faith.
And I don't have time today to go into the fact that Islam's Koran was also written by a man and has plenty of contradictions including what it says about prior scripture.
contradictory (ˌkɒntrəˈdɪktərɪ) — adj
1. inconsistent; incompatible
2. given to argument and contention: a contradictory person
3. logic contrary Compare subcontrary (of a pair of statements) unable both to be true or both to be false under the same circumstances
Good, you understand the meaning of contradictory.
Now I suggest you consider trying to understand that verse in a way not contradictory to the rest of scripture.
Too bad you still don't. It is facinating to watch people jump through hoops trying to shoehorn the entire New Testament into the faulty interpretation of one particular line. The bad news is that these books have many authors, multiple agendas, and frequent errors in translation and transcription.
Pot calls kettle black. We have many passages indicating that we can't lose our salvation, including several in the book of John, where you quoted that one verse from. The verse you quoted doesn't mention salvation, but you want to overturn many passages of scripture with that one verse, by insisting it can mean you can lose your salvation, when it doesn't say that. And to insist on that, then you must assume that scripture is contradictory and was not inspired by God. In fact, your interpretation is making the book of John look contradictory.
If you vote for Obama, you're already there.
You are over thinking this thing. Obama has launched a direct frontal attack on Christianity through his health care bill. There is no indication that he would relent if he is reelected.
K,I.S.S. - (keep it simple, stupid) usually works pretty well for me, when I try to decide what to do.
ABO.
Building (rebuilding?) a conservative movement is all well and good. But, you do not start remodeling your house while it is on fire.
It is "pointless and tiresome" because you keep bringing up the same type of examples which do not prove the point under consideration. When did Daniel vote for Nebuchadnezzar? Belshazzar? When did Paul vote for Nero? Obeying and serving an evil ruler is different than voluntarily voting for one. God has granted this nation freedoms not known in many places. One of those freedoms is to vote OR NOT VOTE as the situation dictates. Christians to vote their conscience seriously need to consider the option of not voting for any candidate when both are enemies of the Cross.
Not exactly the most compelling example. It would have still taken another 537 Bush voters (besides you) to make a difference or 268 other people flipping their votes from Bush to Gore and you not voting to make a difference. Even in that extremely close election, your one vote was essentially insignificant.
Let's not overstate the importance of any one vote. Besides I have not called for people to sit out the election below the Presidential line. In fact, I am persuading the conservatives I know who have stated they are sitting out this election to vote down the ticket for those people who will thwart the agendas of both Obama and Romney.
See post 149. As Revel points out any argument which states a non-vote for Romney is a vote for Obama is exactly mirrored by the argument that a non-vote for Obama is a vote for Romney. I am a total ABOR (anyone but Obama or Romney). Just because I'm more opposed to Obama, it doesn't follow that my vote is available to Romney.
To your example:
Flaw #1: I am not compelled to vote. It is perfectly within my Biblical and Constitutional rights to abstain if I so chose.
Flaw #2 (also known as the category fallacy): Your example assumes that I can be persuaded to vote for Romney, in other words, I can be moved from one category to another. (This is also crudely referred to as the "if my aunt had testicles, she'd be my uncle" fallacy.) Since I am firmly opposed to Romney, it could be argued that I could be just as easily persuaded to vote for Obama since I rather fight the enemy outside the gates than an enemy inside the gates (but I won't). See post 149.
Flaw #3 (also known as the proportions fallacy): Your example puts too much importance on one act which distorts the reality of the situation. My vote (or yours) means basically nothing in the overall scheme of things. See post 191. My state went for McCain by about 186K votes (or 15 percentage points). For Obama to carry this state, far more 2008 McCain voters than just me are going to have to decide that Romney is a bridge too far.
Flaw #4: Your example is a popular vote example. While the popular vote correlates to some degree, it is the electoral college which decides the Presidential race. In this regard, your example is irrelevant. Practically speaking, if Romney needs my vote to carry my state, he's already on the losing side of a historical landslide.
By your logic, I'm going to be contributing to the Obama campaign as well because I'm not giving any money to the Romney campaign. I'm sure you'll balk at this but think about it: giving my money to a campaign is as voluntary an act as my selection of whom I'm going to vote for. A non-vote for Obama and Romney is not a vote for either man just as not giving money to either man is a lack of financial support for both men.
If only you had been in charge of the Dem's GOTV in 2008, we wouldn't have suffered under Obama these past three years....
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I say let it burn and build a brand new one.
So, in other words, your Heaven is populated with not just people like Mother Theresa, but also KKK members who honestly believe that Jesus Christ is God’s son, that he died for our sins, and that His word is the the only path to Salvation.
No thanks. Not buying any.
Yes Presidio,
Sorry for the slow response, was on vacation.
Yes, heaven will be populated with murderers like Moses, King David and Paul (formerly known as the Christian killing Saul).
It will be populated with adulterers and fornicators like Abraham, King David, Samson and Solomon.
It will be populated with people who knew the truth yet denied Christ at times like Peter.
There will be people who didn’t trust what God said, or demonstrated appalling lack of faith at times, like Adam, Eve and Elijah.
There will be thieves like the one of the two that hung next to Jesus. There will be harlots like Rahab.
It will be be populated with hypocrites of all kinds.
There will be no perfect people in Heaven except for God. Yet they will all be perfect because they will have the imputed righteousness of Jesus.
“Come let us reason together, though your sins are like scarlett they shall be white as snow.”
There is another path to salvation. Never sin.
By the way, given enough time God would convinced a believing KKK member that what he was doing was wrong. But accepting salvation doesn’t instantly transform a person to be Christlike. That takes a lot of time and effort. And I’m not sure any of us get there. Even the most mature Christians I have known are quick to admit that they are still discovering faults.
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