Pornographic Politics: Did the Daily Caller ‘Pull a Media Matters’ on Rick Santorum?

The Other McCain ^ | March 15, 2012 | Robert Stacy McCain

[God'sgrrl]

Today I noticed a thread at Memeorandum aggregating commentary on an article by Daily Caller associate editor Steven Nelson: ‘Vigorous’ Santorum crackdown may catch Internet porn viewers with pants down I sort of shrugged that off, and then a I saw this Tweet by Jedediah Bila: Didn’t tweet about this today, but if it’s accurate, I find it absolutely insane.”Santorum Promises Broad War on Porn”: more...

[Danae]

If Aldo got his citizenship a Minute before Rick was born, then Rick would be a Natural Born Citizen. The requirement according to SCOTUS law born in the country to two parents who are it’s citizens.

If his dad was a citizen, then this should be EASY to prove, and frankly I really wish Rick would do just that. I am NOT at all a Romney supporter, and Newt isn’t going to have enough delegates. I do not want a Romney GOP candidate.

But I cannot support a candidate who doesn’t even meet the Constitutional Requirements for office. I didn’t make the laws, but for damn sure I want them followed. I want Santorum to provide the information I need to support him, and that is proof of his legal ability to hold the office he is running for. If he can’t do that, then he shouldn’t be running!

If he isn’t an NBC, then he is no better than Obama. That is a FAIL, a total FAIL.

[Jean S]

Rick Santorum’s father earned his U.S. citizenship the hard way. He served our country in WWII. Comparing him to Obama is an insult.

[Danae]

Did he get it before Rick was born?

Yes or no?

[Jean S]

I don’t know. Do you?

[Danae]

Look, stop changing the subject, it is disingenuous Jean.

First, I am NOT comparing Aldo Santorum to Obama in the first place.

If Rick is not a Natural Born Citizen, then he is just like Obama IN THAT SENSE. For the same reason! He wasn’t born to two parents who were citizens! Thats NOT my fault if that is the case! Is it fair? I never said it was, but I am not going to be called a hypocrite and let it slide just because the guy is on “my” side. That is dishonorable, wrong, and I won’t do it.

SECOND, I NEVER said that what Aldo did was in any way not worthy of tremendous respect. I find it astounding you would even imply that.

Third, this has NOTHING to do with Aldo, other than what his citizenship status was when his son was born.

Stop trying to spin this into some slimeball attack on the Aldo Santorum’s integrity and honor! It is NOT. That is a craptasticly nasty thing to do Jean, and below you.

This ought to be EASY to settle. If it can’t be settled, then help SETTLE IT. It is too important to let slide! It is the CONSTITUTION dang it!

[Danae]

That is my ONLY point Jean. No one KNOWS! Thats All I want to know! If Santorum is an NBC he has my support! If he isn’t then he shouldn’t be running.

[Jean S]

“No one KNOWS!”

Then why are you assuming that he’s not a NBC? Why not assume the opposite?

[Danae]

I didn’t bring up the subject, I didn’t know it was even a remote issue until inside the last 3 or 4 weeks. But once it was brought up... and so far no proof has been offered showing us that Aldo was a citizen when Rick was born, we have nothing. This should be EASY to deal with. REAL easy.

Sorry Jean, but the absence of a thing does not prove it’s existence. I am not going to buy into that logic. As far as I can tell, Rick Santorum is not answering the question, and I know it has been asked, by people who should be able to get answers. The campaign is silent, Rick is silent.... what does that tell us? It does tell us something. I can say this much, that telling isn’t coming from me, it is coming from Rick. I am merely making public note of what Rick’s actions or lack thereof tells the public. I am making an observation. I didn’t create the situation, I am noting it.

If it were a “yes” and Aldo was a citizen, then he would say yes, just like we have said about Obama since 2008 who just refused to directly answer the question. If he were a Natural Born Citizen born to two parents who were citizens then say so! It’s E A S Y to do... if it is true. If it is NOT true, then one can only speak the truth and bow out, or duck the question and hope it goes away. That was Obama’s tactic. Is Rick Santorum doing the same thing??? I would like an answer.

It isn’t a tough question, unless it can’t be shown that Aldo was a citizen when Rick was born. Then the only option Rick has is to avoid answering the question or get out of the race. Just like Obama. If this is true, then he is literally following in Obama’s footsteps, and that is not something I am going to support. I really don’t like that, I really sincerely do not like that, but I have no other option.

Here, lets use me, since my silly documents are public. Shoot and I am not even running for POTUS!I was born to two parents who were citizens when I was born. My mom was born to two Naturalized citizens - My grandfather was from England by way of Canada, my grandmother was Canadian. They were naturalized before my mom was born by just about two years. My father was born to two parents who were themselves Natural Born Citizens and we can trace that back to before the Civil war.

It is an E A S Y question.

Shoot, it could be answered by Aldo’s Military Records. Whats the hold up if he was a citizen when Rick was born? Seriously! Why duck the question?

Why is Rick relying on the STIGMA of questioning his hero father’s citizenship status? I don’t like the smell of that at all, and neither should anyone else.

I am not questioning Aldo’s heroism, nor his RIGHT to get and hold American Citizenship! He earned it on a level most Americans can’t relate to, or in some ways appreciate. That is a hugely honorable thing.

However, that does not mean that his son is an automatic Natural Born Citizen if Aldo was not himself a citizen at his birth. The father’s honorable WWII achievements is not enough to prove his son is a Natural Born Citizen. If Aldo was a citizen when Rick was born this should be EASY to document.

Easy peazie lemon squeezy easy. As my daughter would say.

Don’t ask me what the hold up is, ask Rick Santorum. He is the only one who can answer that, and frankly a lot of people are waiting for that answer.

[MD Expat in PA]

WRONG. Title 8 says if you were born here, you are a CITIZEN. Not a Natural Born Citizen, and if you are quoting it, then you should know better.

No you are WRONG. There is no such thing as a “Natural Born Citizenship” outside of what the US Constitution already says about it, i.e. someone born in the US is a citizen - period. It says nothing about any requirement that a person born in the US is not “natural born” if either or both parents are not US citizens at the time of their birth. Title 8 only went as far as clarify citizen status of those born outside of the US to expat parents, of native American tribal members, and of diplomats and their children born outside of the US and those of US citizen service people serving overseas or in US territories.

Minor v Happersett decided the meaning of Natural Born Citizen in 1875:

“”The Constitution does not, in words, say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. At common-law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners.” Minor v. Happersett, 88 U.S. 162, 168.”

This unanimous SCOTUS decision has never been overturned, and has been cited to dozens of times over the 138 years since it was handed down.

Wrong again! Minor v. Happersett was a case involving the rights of women to vote. Virginia Louisa Minor argued that as US citizen, she had the right to vote. It should be mentioned that she was born in the US. The ruling basically said that women did not have the right to vote and upheld Missouri law that denied her that right. I would say the 19th Amendment pretty much made that ruling in full, null and void. It should also be mentioned that Minor v. Happersett mentions the right of only “free white people to vote and that has also been superceeded.

Title 8 cannot confer Natural Born Citizenship, nor can Congress. Congress has control of Naturalization laws, but cannot affect Natural Born Citizenship, because it is a condition of birth. This child was born in country to two parents who are it’s citizens. This child can have no other possible citizenship.

Fine, you think Title 8 has no baring, then go back to the US Constitution and tell me where it explicitly prohibits a person who is born in the US is not a citizen and therefore unqualified to be POTUS. The Constitution doesn’t say that. Its called Jus Soli (Right of soil) AND Jus Sanguinus (Right of Blood)and BOTH are necessary for Natural Born Citizenship.

No sparky, you are wrong yet again; neither Jus Soli or Jus Sanguinus are recognized in the United States and only recognized by a small number of countries. Like or not Birth Right Citizenship is the law of the land. You have a problem with Title 8 but have no problem quoting the laws and legal concepts of other foreign nations such as Jus Soli or Jus Sanguinus – go figure. Perhaps you are also fine with Sharia Law and European Union laws as well?

Anyone who has done any scholarship on this issue, and I have, knows this. I have been publishing on this for some time now.

Color me quitwe unimpressed by your legal scholarship and knowledge or by your web postings (publishing) on the subject.

[Jim Robinson]

Don’t post like an ass. Santorum is a natural born citizen. Give it a rest. Continue attacking our posters as you are and you will get the boot from FR! Go somewhere else to post such nonsense.

[dirtboy]

Why is Rick relying on the STIGMA of questioning his hero father’s citizenship status? I don’t like the smell of that at all, and neither should anyone else.

Maybe he doesn't want to humor pinheads for whom Aldo's military service, sufficient to earn his citizenship (under U.S. Code) and dispel any notions of divided loyalty (the purpose of the NBC requiremen), apparently aren't enough?

If I were Santorum I'd tell y'all to go pound sand. I imagine he doubts there are many voters who would follow your particular path of indecent excess on this subject. And given how little traction the birther movement has gotten, he's probably right. No sane person can question Aldo Santorum's loyalty to this country in the manner that your intransigence represents.

Now, go ahead and rant how I an not a good American for refusing to follow you down your rabbit hole. See where that gets you as well, insulting conservatives on FR. I used to have sympathies for the birther movement, but you are rapidly eliminating them.

[Jim Robinson]

I believe Santorum is a natural born citizen and is a qualified conservative candidate. Double dog dare you to call me a sad American or a Obama supporting fool. Believe you’ve gone off the deep end with this nonsense. Seek help.

[Danae]

"No you are WRONG. There is no such thing as a “Natural Born Citizenship” outside of what the US Constitution already says about it, i.e. someone born in the US is a citizen - period."

Dude, you don't even know what is IN the Constitution. ANYONE who does would NOT say that. Why? because Natural Born Citizen is NOT defined anywhere in the Constitution. Beyond that, if it didn't "exists" then why would the framers state there was? "No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President" the framers made a clear distinction.

Why?

Because at the time the constitution was signed, there were hardly any citizens who could qualify as a Natural Born Citizens, including most of the framers themselves. they were citizens, but may not have been born in the colonies, or had parents who were foreigners (like Washington). This would have made it impossible for George Washington to become the first President if it were not included. It is known as the "grandfather clause" - "a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution,". It wasn't until 1811, 35 years later, that it could be reasonably determined that a 35 year old person was a Natural Born Citizen. Or are you suggesting that we didn't need a Constitutional President until 1811? Clearly the Framers knew there was a specific definition of Natural Born Citizen, and knew that they had to include a Grandfather Clause, because not even George Washington could have qualified as eligible for POTUS otherwise.

"It says nothing about any requirement that a person born in the US is not “natural born” if either or both parents are not US citizens at the time of their birth. "

What the heck is that? Seriously, the constitution doesn't say that anywhere, not even close. The only place Natural Born Citizenship is discussed is in Article 2 Section 1.

"Title 8 only went as far as clarify citizen status of those born outside of the US to expat parents, of native American tribal members, and of diplomats and their children born outside of the US and those of US citizen service people serving overseas or in US territories."

Do you know how many times title 8 has been changed? Now to the LARGER point, Title 8 is written by whom? Which Body?

Congress.

Congress has the power to write laws regarding NATURALIZATION.

It cannot write laws about Natural Born Citizenship.

Why?

Because it cannot be legislated.

Why can't it be Legislated?

Because it is a Condition at birth.

What does that condition at birth have to be?

Born in country to two parents who are its citizens.

How do we know that?

Because it is codified in Supreme Court of the United States Law in Minor V Happersett 1875 88 US 162, 168.

"Wrong again! Minor v. Happersett was a case involving the rights of women to vote. Virginia Louisa Minor argued that as US citizen, she had the right to vote. It should be mentioned that she was born in the US. The ruling basically said that women did not have the right to vote and upheld Missouri law that denied her that right. I would say the 19th Amendment pretty much made that ruling in full, null and void. It should also be mentioned that Minor v. Happersett mentions the right of only “free white people to vote and that has also been superceeded."



Ok, I am deliberately being very patient here because I have explained this so many times, to so many different people.

What was it that made it impossible for Virgina Minor to make use of the 14th Amendment - her mechanism of choice to demand redress in SCOTUS to begin with?

It was the reason she lost the case before the court even had to address the fact she was a woman. She could not use the 14th Amendment, because she had zero claim to use it.

She was a Natural Born Citizen, born to two parents who were citizens in the Country. No Natural Born Citizen can use the 14th Amendment on citizenship issues, because they have no legal ability to, the 14th Amendment with regard to citizenship, does not apply to Natural Born Citizens. Why would it? How could it? A Natural Born Citizen doesn't need it, and congress cannot legislate Natural Born Citizenship, so the 14th Amendment doesn't apply to Natural Born Citizens, they don't need it in any way shape or form in order to determine the fact that those people are citizens. This is why the Minor case was decided as it was.

The definition of Natural Born Citizen as written in Minor was this:

"“The Constitution does not, in words, say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. At common-law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners.” Minor v. Happersett, 88 U.S. 162, 168."

It's called an Independent Ground. What is an independent Ground you ask? It is a piece of information used in reaching a decision. Here is a recent case which shows that this term is known in legal terms, and used in legal cases, http://openjurist.org/519/us/79/ogilvie-v-united-states Ogilvie Et Al., Minors v. United States, 519 U.S. 79 (1996)

“Although we gave other reasons for our holding in Schleier as well, we explicitly labeled this reason an ‘independent’ ground in support of our decision, id., at 334. We cannot accept petitioners’ claim that it was simply a dictum.”

The Independent Ground in Minor is not a part of the Dictum. It is part of the Holding in the case, it is the reason Minor was decided as it was. It is why Virgina Minor lost her case. Not because she was a woman, the court did not discuss that as a reason to deny her, they didn't want to touch that political hot potato. No, they used the fact she was a Natural Born Citizen, and then they defined it clearly to show how the description of her birth and her citizenship status is what prevented her from using the 14th Amendment.

"Fine, you think Title 8 has no baring, then go back to the US Constitution and tell me where it explicitly prohibits a person who is born in the US is not a citizen and therefore unqualified to be POTUS. The Constitution doesn’t say that."

This is correct Title 8 has no bearing. Look it up yourself. Congress can write laws on citizenship only as it applies to NATURALIZATION. That is a simple fact. Its Article 1 Section 8, and it states: "The Congress shall have Power To... [sic] establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization..." Title 8 is what Congress has written. Title 8 does not and cannot affect or effect Natural Born Citizenship, because this citizenship does not fall into the category of Naturalization. If there is anything that most people can agree on, it is this, there is only two forms of Citizenship. Natural Born Citizenship, and Naturalized Citizenship. That's it. If you are not a Natural Born Citizen, then your citizenship can be affected by Congress, who can write Naturalization law. That includes the 14th Amendment, Title 8 or any other law congress has written and passed. The only way that congress could effect Natural Born Citizenship would be to write and then pass a Constitutional Amendment and get 2/3rds of the states to also pass it saying that it can. That's it.

"No sparky, you are wrong yet again; neither Jus Soli or Jus Sanguinus are recognized in the United States and only recognized by a small number of countries."

My whole argument above proves in debate fashion, that the United States recognizes Jus Sanguinus and Jus Soli. it is codified in Minor V. Happersett which has never been overturned, and is still the law of the land, and it is also very clearly delineated in Article 2 Section 1 by the writers of the constitution itself.

"Like or not Birth Right Citizenship is the law of the land."

Well, even a broken clock is right twice a day. You are correct! The 14th Amendment is currently interpreted to mean that being born here gives you citizenship. It surely does! Unfortunately for your argument, citizenship is not the same as Natural Born Citizenship.

"You have a problem with Title 8 but have no problem quoting the laws and legal concepts of other foreign nations such as Jus Soli or Jus Sanguinus – go figure. Perhaps you are also fine with Sharia Law and European Union laws as well? "

I really am uninterested in what your opinion of me is. Frankly it's none of my business. More to the point it isn't relevant what your opinion is. I can say this however, I at least have the guts and self confidence to publish on it. You can't deny that.

I have done the research, I know what I am talking about, and so far am winning this debate on points. I am not going to apologize for it. I don't need to. Facts are facts, and I have presented facts. You can disagree till the cows come home. That does not mean you are correct. I know I am correct, I have done the research that proves it.

It's nothing personal. You are by no means alone in not knowing what these things are or mean. It is why we find ourselves here to begin with. It is why I am being patient and not rising to your thinly veiled insults. This is a VERY important discussion and I am not going to belittle it with personal attacks, thinly veiled or not.

[Danae]

Jim, I respect the heck out of you, on many levels. I do not think you are a sad American. Or an Obama supporting fool, and I am surprised you are misinterpreting what I have said to mean that.

I said if someone is willing to knowingly overlook something like the lack of Natural Born Citizenship when qualifying a candidate for POTUS as was done with Barack Obama, that is a sad American.

Not even JeanS can say if Aldo Santorum was a citizen when his son was born, and she admitted it. I can’t say it either. I would VERY FRANKLY like to say that I can! I do NOT want mittens for POTUS. I WANT to support Santorum!

But... IF he cannot prove he is a Natural Born Citizen, that his dad was a citizen when he was born, after all I have done to bring Minor v Happersett to the public, all the research... having the BALLS to not only stick to my guns, but explain it over and over and bring more fact and law into it... if I go back on all that now to support Santorum when OTHER people in the political world are bringing up a legitimate question about Santorum’s qualifications... do you really think I should just cave in on all that and turn myself into a hypocrite?

REALLY? Are you SERIOUS?

I should just turn around 180 and go back on everything I have said and invested, from my personal IDENTITY, to my Hawaiian Birth Certificates, my reputation as an honest broker of information and admitting when I am wrong without hesitation, the exposure and libel of my family members, the thinly veiled threats I have been subjected to, for political expediency?? Is this what you are asking me to do?

I did not bring up this issue. I did NOT bring up the question about Santorum. First I heard of it was HERE at FR. Is it a question that deserves to be answered? Well that depends on just how important you think the issue is. I had not even questioned it until I read it here. I knew his father had served in the Military in WWII and my understanding was he got his citizenship because of his service. That was enough for me until someone asked if the man was a citizen before his son was born. I didn’t have an answer. So far no one has answered it, including Santorum.

I didn’t ask this question first. Not even close. Does it deserve an answer?

Yes, it does. It matters with every man or woman who seeks the Presidency. Yes, Presidential candidates should be held to higher standards, they are seeking the most powerful office in the world.

If Rick Santorum is a Natural Born Citizen it should be very easy to prove. Shoot, it would be wonderful to be able to celebrate once again the tremendous sacrifices his father had to make in order to become a citizen!! He along with ALL Immigrants who gained citizenship through Service to this Nation DESERVE the accolades!

I know you think I am off the deep end. That’s ok, your opinion of me really isn’t any of my business as it was so lovingly instructed to me very recently. I cannot turn myself into a hypocrite. I am sorry, but I cannot do that.

[Jean S]

Not even JeanS can say if Aldo Santorum was a citizen when his son was born, and she admitted it.

Enough of this Pravda crap from you! You are asking us to prove a negative!

You made the accusation, the burden of proof is on you.

[Jim Robinson]

Don’t be an idiot. Continue attacking our conservative candidates with this nonsense and or our conservative FReepers you’re going to get the boot from FR. Take your fantasies elsewhere. America hating communist propaganda rag Pravda is appropriate. Wake up.

[dirtboy]

My dad came here from Norway around the age of 8. He tried to enlist right after Pearl Harbor but was rejected because of his citizenship status. He was a year later drafted even though he wasn’t a citizen – go figure. Because of several government snafus regarding his paperwork and his army discharge papers, he did not become a “naturalized” citizen until several years after he and my mom got married and my older brother was born. The judge officiating over the naturalization however told my dad this was a formality and in his opinion one that my dad should have be made to go through since outstanding service record and him having taken the military oath already proved his citizenship.

Your story shows why Danae is so off-base. She demands adherence to the narrowest possible intepretation of the NBC clause while failing to comprehend that the intent of that clause - making sure a president does not have divided loyalties - was met by Aldo Santorum's military service. In her narrow world, paperwork matters more than military service, an absolute absurdity.

So somehow Rick Santorum's eligibility to be president could be blocked if Aldo Santorum's citizenship had been tied up by bureaucratic nonsense - and his military service and oath be damned.

Stupid, petty, petulant and short sighted, and quite frankly it is an insult to the notion of earning citizenship by serving this country. She is too wedded to her birther agenda to notice how badly she is coming across here.

[Danae]

No, Jean, I didn’t. The first I heard of this issue was at FR. I didn’t bring it up do a google search on it. But the question got asked, and not just here.

I do NOT know the answer. Shoot, I don’t even remotely know the Military rules or regulations which govern such things. I do not know what laws govern this, I have not done an ounce of research into it. I going from what other posters here at FR have said. Thats it. I do not know the answers. Please enlighten me. I am asking you to.

I am not asking anyone to prove a negative! I didn’t make any accusations. I am not the one who asked the question.

Do you want to give a answer? Great! I really want do one! I have a primary coming up in Oregon and I REALLY want to be able to cast my vote for Santorum without any hesitation because I think he is the best man left in the race with a chance!

You and Jim are both acting like I am out to knock Santorum out of the race. No. I repeat, NO.

I want to vote for the man! I cannot do that if he isn’t a Natural Born Citizen! I have too much invested in the position of never voting for a person who is NOT a Natural Born Citizen!

[Danae]

I just saw this post. Thanks Jim.

[Danae]

Ok, you all win.

I concede the field to you.