That myth-crap of 'Khazars,' pushed by R. Islamists and Neo-Nazis alike

LibertyNewsNetwork & more ^ | Jan. 18. 2012

[don-o]

Say what?

[PRePublic]

The Kahazar myth that was reiterated by the Arab Helen Thomas.

[SJackson]

Middle East and terrorism, occasional political and Jewish issues Ping List. High Volume

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Very long.

[dennisw]

The Khazar origin for European Jews has been debunked. But this doesn’t stop Nazi-types and Muslims from propagating it since it neatly fits in with their Antisemitism.

[SunkenCiv]

Thanks PRePublic. A two-list topic, as this is one of *those* topics.

• Beyond the Mountains of Darkness
• Gozan
• Khalakh
• "Cities of the Medes"

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[SunkenCiv]

GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach	join list or digest view topics view or post blog bookmark post a topic subscribe
Thanks PRePublic. To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.

[Joe 6-pack]

Fiction, but a fun read on the subject...just be aware as to whether you buy the male or the female version of the book...

[SunkenCiv]

Thanks J6P.

[PRePublic]

Right term in image. Thanks.

[TheOldLady]

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[rmlew]

I don't know why Hitler is dragged into this. And Neo-nazis are actually rather confused. Hitler was quite clear that he hated Semitic Jews. He did not just target Ashkenazi Jews, but also Sephardi and Mizrahi ones. The Karaite Tatars (Karaylar) claim to be Khazars. Karites are a sect of Judaism that do not respect the Talmud and who claim to be Sadducees. In Lithuania, Tatar Karaites were slaughtered alongside Ashkenazi Karites and Ashkenazi Rabbinate/Pharisee Jews. However, the SS was forced to change tactics when they came to Crimea, where they wanted Tatar help. The Muslim and Christian Tatars protected the Karaylar and the SS decided that they were not Jews, but Tatars of the Mosaic Faith. As such they were not killed. But they did make a very nasty bargain with the devils. Antoher group or Tatar Jews, Krimchaks or Orthodox Jewish Tatars, who had intermarried with Ashkenazi Jews were not protected. In fact, to their shame, Karaylar leaders sold out many of the Krimchaks who were pretending to be Karaylar. Of course, the SS didn't always care about race, as they exterminate Subbotniks (Slavic peasents who first followed the equivalent of a Seveth Day Adventist offshoot of Eastern Orthodox Christianity and later became Jews). Not taht the SS liked Slavs. My point is that Nazis hated Jewish Semites, not Jewish Turks. Then again, what does consistancy matter to Neo-Nazis? Most of those I come across in America have Celtic ancestry, and Nazis saw Celts as inferior.

The myth that Jews wre descended from Khazars was popularized by the hack Koestler in the 1970s, although Lothrop Stoddard mentioned it in the 1920s. Although some Ashkenazi Jews such as myself do have some Khazar ancestry, I fail to see how this matters. Soem Khazar nobility and traders converted and intermarried with Jews. Khazaria accepted Jewish refugees from the Byzantine Empire and Caliphate for over 200 years.

This article has many errors. Arabs and Turks were never killed by the Nazis on racial grounds. Plaut's piece is fubar because it uses Kuzari as its only source. Plaut really should have read DM Dunlop or Kevin Brooks. The Khazar royal court never became Jewish. Khazaria was a dual-Khagan Empire/Khaganate. The Khagan (Khan or Khans) held little real power and held a religious and ceremonial role. The Khagans were of the royal Ashina clan, which had ruled the Blue Khaganate/Kok Turkut. They were considered semi-divine and descended from the wolf goddess, Ashina/Asena. When the Kok Turkut collapsed, the Oghuric Khazars and Sabirs stayed loyal to the Ashina Clan, fighting a nasty set of wars with their kin, the Bulghars. (The Bulghars splintered with one group moving up the Volga to Suwar and founded the Great Bulgharia, and another invading the Danube plain and Thrace, becoming Bulgaria. The Magyars were either part of this campaign of were later settled in Etel-Kotz, which had been the homeland of the Bulghars. They merged with some remaining Oghurs to be known as Onughur/Hungarians. But this was much later, when they were joined by the Kabars, Khazars who lost a later civil war.) The only real legitimacy of the Khazars, allowing them to have a Khaganite with subject peoples including the Oghuzz/Ghuzz, Magyars, and Sabirs was the Ashina Khagan. Adn this dual Khaganate existed at least until the 10th century, well after the conversion in either 740 or 860 under the Khagan Bek, Bulan (or Bulan Sabriel). The Khagan Bek was the Prime Minister and head of the army. And there are Khazar surnames among Jews. Kaplan (Qiplan/Tiger) is one. And there are non-Cohens with the names Kogen and Kaganovich, who may be descended from the Jewish Khagan Beks.

I enjoy arguing with antisemites on the Khazar question, largely because I have forgotten more about this issue than they will every know. If you want to find out facts about the Khazars, the place to start is www.Khazaria.com, which is owned by Kevin Brooks, who wrote The Jews of Khazaria. DM Dunlop's The History of the Jewish Khazars is worth reading, but harder to get. Pavic's "Dictionary of the Khazars" doesn't even qualify as historical fiction. It is pure fiction with a few terms thrown in. If you want historical fiction on Khazaria, I suggest Monroe S. Kuttner's THE RABBI KING: David of Khazaria, Marek Halter's Wind of the Khazars, Michael Chabon's Gentlemen of the Road: A Tale of Adventure. Anne Hart has written two books, but I haven't read these.

[SunkenCiv]

Thanks rmlew, well said.

[SunkenCiv]

Thanks PRePublic.

[Pelham]

In the 80’s I encountered the works of Arthur Koestler, a one-time Hungarian Communist who broke with that faith and who went on to write some very good books- Arrow in the Blue, The Invisible Writing, The God that Failed.

Anyway I saw a curious book of his once called “Thirteenth Tribe: Khazar Empire and Its Heritage”. First time I had ever heard of “Khazars”.

I wonder what Koestler, a man of Jewish heritage who had once been sentenced to death by Spanish Fascists, would think of the latest fans of the theme of his book?

[SunkenCiv]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2834625/posts?page=12#12

and:

http://www.google.com/search?q=thirteenth+tribe

The skinhead search hits are numerous.

[dennisw]

The myth that Jews wre descended from Khazars was popularized by the hack Koestler in the 1970s,

I read his book back then and was very impressed. But his Khazar theory has been debunked since then. I think DNA tests have been used on this.
The only people still going on about European Jews being Kahars are anti-Semites and internet nut cases. Muslims possess no logical thinking so they love Kahzar mythology and using it against Israel and other Jews.

   The Khazars   www.csjo.org/pages/essays/essaykhazars.htm The greatest evidence against a significant Khazar ancestry for Ashkenazic Jews is DNA testing. Data shows that the predominant origin of Ashkenazic Jews ...

 

 

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

I ran across someone on FR a while back who was spouting this crap.

[PIF]

Arthur Koestler is best known for “Darkness at Noon” - detailing the fate of progressives who support a successful socialist revolution.

For lighter reading on the Khazars, I suggest Milorad Pavic’s “Dictionary of the Khazars: A Lexicon Novel” - either the male or the female version - one paragraph is critically different.

On the periphery of the Khazars: Milorad Pavic’s “Landscape Painted with Tea”.

[chesley]

What’s the difference?? You can post privately to me if you don’t want to spoil it for somebody.