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To: metmom
By the way, you seem to think that I have some responsibility to explain to you the mysteries of the universe. I don't. I have neither any responsibility to choose one of the current scientific explanations. Let the scientists wonder about these things if they want to, I don't care in the slightest. I'm okay with "I don't know."

Morever, positing a God doesn't solve the "I don't know" problem. It just adds one more step of conjecture until you're back to "I don't know." What is the nature of God? You don't know. How could he have been around forever? You don't know. How did he make matter out of nothing? You don't know.

You've simply added an extra step between humans and the mystery of the universe. But your step is a detour. Once someone accepts the God explanation, thought stops and reading begins. What did this book say? What did those scrolls say? What interpretation does this spiritual leader posit? What did that mean? Now you aren't thinking anymore. You're just researching.

102 posted on 12/30/2011 10:41:24 AM PST by A_perfect_lady
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To: A_perfect_lady
Why do you think that Christianity came about to try to answer "where did the world come from" ?

Cheers!

103 posted on 12/30/2011 10:46:46 AM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: A_perfect_lady
Once someone accepts the God explanation, thought stops and reading begins.

Like Mendel or Tycho Brahe or Michael Faraday or Henry Schaefer?

You have correctly identified a significant difference between scholasticism and empiricism, but you seem to have forgotten the Relapse (known by libs as the "Renaissance") and their slavish adulation of ancient authorities. See also "Galen".

Cheers!

106 posted on 12/30/2011 10:57:09 AM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: A_perfect_lady; betty boop
Once someone accepts the God explanation, thought stops and reading begins.

Tell that to Isaac Newton.

That line of reasoning is the biggest fallacy going among atheists to try to discredit those who believe.

It is a total and complete lie. Do you even have a clue of how many of the greatest scientists this world has ever seen were *gasp* Christians? And by that I don't mean deists or marginal believers, but actual, professing saving faith in the Creator of the universe believers?

I've yet to meet a true believer who thinks, *Goddidit. I'm done* and lets it go at that.

128 posted on 12/30/2011 12:19:01 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: A_perfect_lady; betty boop; Alamo-Girl
Once someone accepts the God explanation, thought stops and reading begins.

Tell that to Isaac Newton.

That line of reasoning is the biggest fallacy going among atheists to try to discredit those who believe.

It is a total and complete lie. Do you even have a clue of how many of the greatest scientists this world has ever seen were *gasp* Christians? And by that I don't mean deists or marginal believers, but actual, professing saving faith in the Creator of the universe believers?

I've yet to meet a true believer who thinks, *Goddidit. I'm done* and lets it go at that.

129 posted on 12/30/2011 12:19:12 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: A_perfect_lady

89 - “but the fact is, most of the prophecies do not fit Jesus. He wasn’t called Emmanuel.” -
People and groups in the OT were OFTEN getting special ‘place’ names and temporary names, to be used for a specific purpose. Solomon, for example, got TWO names at his birth (II Sam 12.25)—Solomon and Jedidiah. No reference is ever made to Jedidiah after that, but it doesn’t seem to be an issue. See also the story about Pashur in Jer 20:1-6.

Israel and Judah consistently receive ‘temporary’ and symbolic names in the Prophets (cf. Ezek 23 and Is 62.3-4)

Matthew is the one who quotes the ‘Immanuel’ passage one verse AFTER the he reports the angel’s command to name the son JESUS, AND four verses BEFORE reporting that his parents called him ‘Jesus’...he doesn’t show the SLIGHTEST concern over this “problem”! (in other words, it WASN’T an issue in that culture). This is even more striking in that Matthew is the one arguing that the passage was fulfilled! —the name issue wasn’t an issue.

If you had to call the kid ‘Immanuel” for the prophecy to be fulfilled, what in the world are we gonna do with Is 9.6—where the child gets 4 names (i.e. wonderful counselor, mighty God, everlasting father, prince of peace)?!

And actually, we don’t think it was his mother who had to call him ‘Immanuel’ anyway. Most modern bibles have a footnote at the ‘she shall call him...’ text, that explains that in the MSS, we have a couple of variants (he, she, they)...Matthew quotes it as ‘they’...This could apply to ANYBODY who acknowledged that Jesus was God walking among his people—even John 1 would qualify for this.

This is just not generally considered a problem:

“There is no problem in referring the names Jesus and Emmanuel to the same person. This may well be the reason Matthew spells out the meaning of the name Emmanuel, meqÆ hJmw`n oJ qeov”, “God with us” (LXX Isa 8:8, 10). Indeed this is not a personal name but rather a name that is descriptive of the task this person will perform. Bringing the presence of God to man, he brings the promised salvation—which, as Matthew has already explained, is also the meaning of the name Jesus (v 21b). “They” who will call him Emmanuel are those who understand and accept the work he has come to do. Matthew probably intends the words of Jesus at the end of his Gospel—“Behold I am with you always, until the end of the age” (28:20)—to correspond to the meaning of Emmanuel. Jesus is God, among his people to accomplish their salvation


155 posted on 12/30/2011 1:10:23 PM PST by anglian
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