[JoeFromSidney]

I long ago decided that if I were in a store or restaurant, and a robbery took place, I'd stay out of it unless the robber(s) looked like they were going to hurt someone. Theft is between the proprietor and his insurance company. I don't see that a "flash rob" changes things any. I might draw my weapon and keep it out of sight, just to shorten my response time, but that would be the extent of it.

In the event of a riot, with people throwing things, burning buildings and cars,and so on, my reaction would be to get out of there as quickly as possible. I'd shoot anyone who looked like a threat to my life or health, or that of anyone in my party, but again that's it.

If the rioters were to attack my home, I'd consider that a threat to my life and health. I'd shoot without hesitation at anyone throwing something at my house, or who came over my property line.

Would such responses on the part of large numbers of people deter rioters? I don't know. I hope we don't have to find out. However, my attitude is, I don't want it, but I don't fear it.

[Darren McCarty]

1 I'm in my local convenience store, buying .. i dunno.. Porn mags and stale cigarettes and gasoline. Suddenly the front door swings open and the place is rushed by 10 or more teens who are screaming, destroying the store and running out with items.

If I don't own the store, I'm going to find my way to the door with one hand my gun, not drawn, ready to deal with any situations.

#2 I'm dropping off some things at the post office to mail out. Say, I dunno.. Porn mags and stale cigarettes. An orchestrated attacks begins throughout my downtown area. 50, 100, 200 people start throwing rocks through windows, molotov cocktails, bricks, porn mags or stale cigarettes through store windows, setting fires or what-have-you.

Any molotov cocktails or bricks flying at me will put me in fear for my life. I'm looking to get home. I will do what I have to do to get there. That can be taken any way one wishes.

[ronnie raygun]

The populace must confront the police chief and give him fair warning if he and the mayor do not address this matter we will be taking matters into our own hands.

[KrisKrinkle]

Well, "Here I am" . Now what ?

I've read a lot in this thread about defending others or their property, or not doing so.

Here's how it might go.

If you are attacked, defend yourself with your firearm.

If it's your store or other business being attacked while you are there, you are in danger of attack so defend yourself with your firearm.

If it's someone else, or their store or business, defense is up to them (with some exceptions).

If you are asked why you did not come to the aid of some one else, you say something along the lines of "They should have had a firearm themselves if they wanted 'defense'".

Pretty soon, more people will be providing for their own defense and won't need others to come to their aid. (I've read that as it stands more and more people are buying guns and getting concealed carry permits.) When that happens, the rioters will be at increased risk of getting hurt when they "put people in reasonable fear". When that happens, most of them will stop. Of course some of them will come back with weapons of their own, but that will probably constitute something other than a riot.

[cracker45]

What’s with your obsession with porn mags and stale cigs?

JC

[Wonder Warthog]

"But when is it time to draw a firearm and use it? I don't see the immediate danger to myself (Unless I'm the target of the protest, such as at a Union rally).

I think if others are threatened physically, then you have an obligation to "draw and use". As long as all the "flash mobbers" are doing is stealing Twinkies and breaking windows, back off and shut up is the word, watchful and ready. Of course, the store owner might feel differently about it, but then "he" should have been armed, too. A pump shotgun can discourage large numbers of people.

[Wonder Warthog]

Here is a good choice for the shop-keeper:

http://www.keltecweapons.com/news/preview-kel-tec-shotgun-ksg

[MediaMole]

Legally, I can’t shoot someone to defend someone else’s property.

If I feel my life is in danger, I’ll shoot, but if it’s a swarm of people running out with cigarettes and Little Debbie snacks, I’m not shooting.

Molotov cocktails are a different story. IMHO, that’s a deadly weapon and a clear and present threat.

The one issue with mob violence is that you’re just one citizen with a handgun against a swarm of people. You may shoot a threat you can see while some other punk sucker punches you from behind.

Retreat to safety is always the best option.

[Redcloak]

The second scenario is the easiest. That’s an insurrection and you’re shooting at the goblins as part of the unorganized militia.

In the first scenario, legal will depend on where you live. Here in CA, you have the right to defend yourself if you are reasonably in fear of death or great bodily harm. And you have the right to carry a firearm openly. (Though, with some funny rules about the ammo.) You needn’t be in your home or business to exercise your right to self defense.

(YMMV)

[ctdonath2]

Your sole goal is to protect your life and lives of your dependents. That’s it.

Your goal is NOT to stop the riot.

However, depending on how circumstances unfold, the former may cause the latter.

[Travis McGee]

Well, forget the multiple shots per attacker, you won’t have enough ammo.

Aim carefully for center mass, one per customer.

[Titan Magroyne]

Once the situation has broken out, I couldn’t agree more with the tactics described in post 91, and *would* be in the situation described in post 92, where my sole vehicle *is* my means of survival. As in Old West days, I see at an instinctual level the loss of transportation as life threatening to me.

If you’re willing to kill me for what’s mine, you’re willing to die for it, too. I don’t care if it’s one red cent, it’s mine. Since that’s all I’m likely to have anyhow, you’re likely to attack me in a fit of pique, so I might as well try shooting first.

I mean sitting here safely in my living room, it’s easy to speculate about throwing down the few dollars I might have, if only that satisfies the attacker(s). But compliance with riot dynamics only affirms the mob’s tactics, so I can’t see a few sheckels buying appeasement when what they want is the victim’s abasement.

That said, I’m not about to kill or die over someone else’s property, possibly not over a stranger’s life either if it means I initiate the shooting. Justified or not, I would always be asking myself if I acted too hastily. Life would never be the same. It’s tough enough without the what-ifs. No calling back that bullet once it leaves the barrel.

[Nebr FAL owner]

If you are the store clerk the least dangerous option with the most chance of success might be the riot control size cans of pepper spray .

These can purchased at police supply houses or you can buy the 1lbs sized cans of bear guard pepper spray. Used inside a enclosed structure they are a area denial weapon however unless you are correctly wearing a working gas mask you also will be effected.

[TheBigJ]

#1 I'm in my local convenience store, buying .. i dunno.. Porn mags and stale cigarettes and gasoline. Suddenly the front door swings open and the place is rushed by 10 or more teens who are screaming, destroying the store and running out with items.

Present firearm? (Don't forget a blade as well.) Not unless you are cornered by several in an aisle maybe. Disparity of force. Also if you are old, hindered by physical disability, etc and life is threatened. It's all taken into account later if authorities are involved.
I can hear a cashier scream in my mind as this scenario plays out as young teens rush in, and rush out, destroying displays, maybe knocking down some customers? Maybe even robbing the weaker folk? Personally, I'd yell in commanding/authoritative voice with full menace: "Get the hell out of here." Try to get a sliver of light on law and order into the dull brains of possible sociopaths. I wouldn't even think to do this, it's the way I'm wired now -- no tolerance for B.S. In addition, I'm not above physically grabbing one tossing them aside, grabbing back of shirt and slamming face first into a wall, perhaps even an elbow strike to chin for knockout. I'm 38, 5 10" 200lbs muscled, best shape of my life by routine exercise, running, etc. Not the biggest, but 8 times out of 10 up against a teen physically I'll win. It's simple muscle mass ratio with reflexes. When a few kids bodies start flying, that will turn heads and bring some hesitancy to what is going down. They would also notice that the actions were undertaken with glee.

"But...but.. Big J that's assault!" Oh! -- but so is the store kids! The store is under assault by mob action. Forget rules. There are no rules on the streets. Hmmm... Shall I wait for a proper blow on my frame before "defending myself??? That's dreamland. And in a mob situation where things are happening 360 degrees around you it's very dangerous. My goal would be a ghost, get out and avoid authorities as well. The cameras will be rolling but if I haven't swiped my debit card even better.

"It's not your job to stop a mob!" So the innocent are left helpless? How do you know there won't be a group rape by these scum for ladies dragged into a back room? WE DON'T KNOW SQUAT. We cannot predict their actions. The mob will not be entering the store on loudspeaker "We are only here for the soap". Naw, I'll take the altruistic approach and do what I can for society. I don't depend on anyone else anyway or that they may possibly make a move. I'm 100% in. Depending on others to do something just weakens your stance.

#2 I'm dropping off some things at the post office to mail out. Say, I dunno.. Porn mags and stale cigarettes. An orchestrated attacks begins throughout my downtown area. 50, 100, 200 people start throwing rocks through windows, molotov cocktails, bricks, porn mags or stale cigarettes through store windows, setting fires or what-have-you.

Pull your piece and yelling "GEt the F*** Back!" Become Mr. Scary. If there is not a dramatic retreat in 5 seconds (rare) open fire on nearest mob rat. Pulling the piece and flashing it around hoping your not outflanked or an object doesn't bash you in the head from above is a weak stance. You'll have to open fire, to kill. Use it or lose it. There's too many to deal with, it's complete chaos. Who in the mob has a firearm? Again, WE DON'T KNOW SQUAT. The best defense is extreme violence of action done quickly without hesitation. You will need at least gun's mag and an extra mag on person. Consider high capacity carry.

If not a gun, use a blade and start stabbing the nearest in the face for the blood message it will send as they watch a fellow mob rat without a nose. The other priority once you can get safe passage is to get out of dodge. Do you want people to see you getting in your car with license plate? In the vicinity of a camera? -- a whole host of things to consider when it goes down. I personally am avoiding any authorities to the extreme. To be crucified by politically correct leaders and propaganda ministry media? No way. Thou shall not get caught, 11th commandment.