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To: Cronos; AndrewC
Let's start from the very beginning. It's a very good place to start.... 1 Pet 3:20 20Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Yes, let's start at the beginning. Noah and those on the ark were NOT saved "by" water. They were saved THROUGH the water. The ark saved them FROM the water.

I Peter 3:20-22 says: to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him. Notice, the water SYMBOLIZES the baptism that saves us. It is NOT the actual water that washes off dirt, but the pledge of a clear conscience towards God. How does this save us? By the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Tell me, how can a little baby make a pledge of a clear conscience towards God? The rite of water baptism, like I have said, is an outward testimony of what has been completed in the believer's heart already. How can we have a clear conscience towards God? It can only be through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ who paid the price for all our sins. We have been redeemed, cleansed from our sins and we now walk in newness of life because we have been born again into the spiritual realm of God. If someone died on his way to be water baptized at church, but he had already accepted Christ as his savior, would he still be saved? Yes. The outward, public act is a testimony to others of the change that has already taken place.

You bring up the baptism of Jesus upon the start of his earthly ministry. John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. Since Jesus HAD no sin, why do you think he was baptized? Even John was taken aback that Jesus would present himself to him for baptism and he said that it was Jesus who should baptize him. He told John that it was "to fulfill all righteousness (Matt. 3:15). It was an outward testimony of Jesus' identification with all believers. This is a good explanation:

There are several reasons why it was fitting for John to baptize Jesus at the beginning of His public ministry. Jesus was about to embark on His great work, and it was appropriate that He be recognized publicly by His forerunner. John was the “voice crying in the wilderness” prophesied by Isaiah, calling people to repentance in preparation for their Messiah (Isaiah 40:3). By baptizing Him, John was declaring to all that here was the One they had been waiting for, the Son of God, the One he had predicted would baptize “with the Holy Spirit and fire” (Matthew 3:11).

Jesus’ baptism also showed that He identified with sinners. His baptism symbolized the sinners’ baptism into the righteousness of Christ, dying with Him and rising free from sin and able to walk in the newness of life. His perfect righteousness would fulfill all the requirements of the Law for sinners who could never hope to do so on their own. When John hesitated to baptize the sinless Son of God, Jesus replied that it was proper to “fulfill all righteousness” (Matthew 3:15). By this He alluded to the righteousness that He provides to all who come to Him to exchange their sin for His righteousness (2 Corinthians 5:21).

In addition, Jesus coming to John showed His approval of John's baptism, bearing witness to it, that it was from heaven and approved by God. This would be important in the future when others would begin to doubt John’s authority, particularly after his arrest by Herod (Matthew 14:3-11).

Perhaps most importantly, the occasion of the public baptism recorded for all generations to come the perfect embodiment of the triune God revealed in glory from heaven. The testimony directly from heaven of the Father’s pleasure with the Son and the descending of the Holy Spirit upon Jesus (Matthew 3:16-17) is a beautiful picture of the trinitarian nature of God. It also depicts the work of the Father, Son and Spirit in the salvation of those Jesus came to save. The Father loves the elect from before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:4); He sends His Son to seek and save the lost (Luke 19:10); and the Spirit convicts of sin (John 16:8) and draws the believer to the Father through the Son. All the glorious truth of the mercy of God through Jesus Christ is on display at His baptism.

So again, water baptism is not what saves us. Nowhere does the Bible say that it does. Only by piecing partial verses out of context can you pretend to prove your point. The truth is nothing we do outside of faith in Christ can give us salvation. We do nothing of ourselves to ever merit eternal life it is all by grace through faith.

3,807 posted on 06/23/2011 2:07:23 PM PDT by boatbums (my cat erased my tagline)
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To: boatbums
AMEN and AMEN!!
3,851 posted on 06/23/2011 8:31:31 PM PDT by presently no screen name ( The Palin Party: The Party of Patriots.)
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To: boatbums
Of course, it is not the water that does the saving, it is the Holy Spirit through the medium of water -- as we read in 1 Jn 5:6-8 6This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

This is linked to the baptism of water and spirit that we see at the time of His Crucifixion, this was Water and Spirit, the blood and water that flowed from the pierced side of the crucified Jesus are types of Baptism and the Eucharist, the sacraments of new life. Jn 19:34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.

This is what Christ foretold before His sacrifice in Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

The water is not a symbol, it is the medium and yes, this is through which the Lord saves us

1 Peter 3:20-21 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ...

3,882 posted on 06/24/2011 11:14:22 AM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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