[AndrewC]

I am saved despite your objections.

[Cronos]

Andrew I am saved despite your objections.

Who said anything about you being saved or not? I never did -- that's between you and your maker

however, Jesus Christ clearly stated that to be saved by His grace provided by His salvation

• Matt. 24:13

  13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

• Matt 25:31-46 34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
  35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
  36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

Jesus says that if you endure to the end you get salvation, that if you helped your fellow man you inherit the kingdom of God (you get salvation) --> note these are HIS own words

• 1 Pet. 3:20-21: " It (Baptism )saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ"

• Note -- also in Acts 16:31 we are told to believe and you will be saved -- so Faith is definitely one of the things needed, yet as you see above, it is not ONLY faith. Remember -- James says "even the demons believe - and shudder" -- it is not faith ALONE that saves

  Jesus said it is not faith ALONE. We are saved by God's GRACE. Full-stop.

  James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. -- it's never faith ALONE. Note that

  1. He who believes and is baptized will be saved. (Mk 16:16)
  2. [U]nless you repent you will all likewise perish. (Lk 13:3)<,li> [H]e who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. (Jn 6:54)

  no one is denying that one MUST have faith to be saved by the freely given grace of salvation, however, it is not faith ALONE. As shown above, Jesus Himself said that

  He who believes and is baptized will be saved. (Mk 16:16)
  [U]nless you repent you will all likewise perish. (Lk 13:3
  [H]e who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. (Jn 6:54)

  So, do listen to the words of Jesus who said it is faith+ repentance+baptism+the Eucharist+endurance, not any of these in isolation. Of course, these don't "save us" per se, since it is Christ's sacrifice on the Cross that grants us our salvation that we can accept or reject

  The problem happens when one takes one section of the word in isolation.

as I pointed above -- this is what Jesus Christ HIMSELF said is needed for salvation

-- repentence, confession of sins, baptism as per the trinitarian formula, eucharist and endurance to the end.

Now where you are in following Jesus Christ's commands is up to you.

He is there, waiting to grant His freely given grace of salvation to all who follow His commands..

[Cronos]

Like I've said before -- it's not that you guys don't have something right. The problem is that the BAers, as an adverse reaction to Presbyterianism (which is why the Presbyterians call you damnable heretics) went to the other extreme from them, leaving out something

In both cases, the virtues, separated from each other went crazy and over-extended. That is the clear problem with the BAers -- there is no balance and it ignores such clear commands directly from the mouth of Jesus Christ: repent, confess, believe, be baptised in the name of the father-son-holy spirit, eucharist and endure to the end

These are Jesus Christ's own words -- you BAers take some good things and leave the rest, that is the problem -- you've left a lot of good things that Jesus Christ gave us behind.