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To: Cronos
Firstly, ">BUT I insist" -- is the wisdom of men contradicting Jesus's words

Nope. It does not contradict. You do. I show the logic. And the logic uses the absolute truth of God's word. If A then B does not imply If not A then not B(inverse). If you believe that it does, you need remedial logic.

3,567 posted on 06/18/2011 1:31:39 AM PDT by AndrewC
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To: AndrewC
Again, you said . I show the logic. And the logic uses the absolute truth of God's word. If A then B does not imply If not A then not B(inverse). If you believe that it does, you need remedial logic.

this is the wisdom of men, using human logic when Jesus Christ's words are so simple: The one who "believes and is baptized shall be saved," (Mark 16:16) -- you do A (believe), then B (baptism) follows and you shall be saved. You don't do A (believe), then B does not follow, hence you won't be saved. Yet, CHRIST HIMSELF says you MUST do A and then B.

3,618 posted on 06/20/2011 4:44:30 AM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrząszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego słynie.)
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To: AndrewC
Remember that the Apostles right from Acts take the very words of Jesus Christ (above) and believed in them. They did not use human logic to deny what He said.

Paul only elaborates past the simple message of Christ.:

Acts 2:38,

38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 22:16;
16 And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.
Rom. 6:1–4;
1 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
1 Cor 6:11,
11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God
1 Cor 12:13;
13 For we were all baptized by[a] one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.
Gal. 3:26–27;
26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ
Eph. 5:26;
to make her holy, cleansing[a] her by the washing with water through the word,
Col. 2:11–12;
11 In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh[a] was put off when you were circumcised by[b] Christ,
12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.
Titus 3:5;
5 he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,

3,619 posted on 06/20/2011 4:46:39 AM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrząszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego słynie.)
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To: AndrewC
We re-read it emphasised in +Paul's letter to the Romans

Rom 6:4

4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
;


Titus 3:5

5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
John 3:5
5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

3,620 posted on 06/20/2011 4:48:50 AM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrząszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego słynie.)
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To: AndrewC
In his Passover Christ opened to all men the fountain of Baptism. He had already spoken of his Passion, which he was about to suffer in Jerusalem, as a "Baptism" with which he had to be baptized
Mk 10:38
38But Jesus said unto them, Ye know not what ye ask: can ye drink of the cup that I drink of? and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?

Lk 12:50

50But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!

The blood and water that flowed from the pierced side of the crucified Jesus are types of Baptism and the Eucharist, the sacraments of new life.
Jn 19:34

34But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.

1 Jn 5:6-8

6This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

7For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

8And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

From then on, it is possible "to be born of water and the Spirit" Jn 3:5

5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

in order to enter the Kingdom of God.

3,621 posted on 06/20/2011 4:49:38 AM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrząszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego słynie.)
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