I guess the puzzling thing for me is I do not understand the "basis" of your doubt; for it seems to me you know what the Truth is. Yet you will not give it your assent. Or so it seems to me, dear kosta.
IMHO, skepticism has good use in "objective science." But yours seems to be a radical skepticism, the kind that effectively makes it impossible to consider questions of meaning and value. Again, or so it seems to me.
But how can a man be fully man if there is no world of meaning, of value, for him? Other animals don't need such a world. Machines don't need such a world. But arguably, man absolutely does need such a world in order to express his full humanity. Anyhoot, I myself couldn't live in a state of radical skepticism, where nothing could make any sense, ever. I'd probably go insane.
Just some stray thoughts, dear kosta. (I wonder whether you realize that I truly do care for you.)
In an earlier post to metmom, you wrote this:
"Christians" who deny the divinity of Jesus are NOT Christians; "Christians" who deny the resurrection of Jesus are NOT Christians. Mormons are NOT Christians. Jehovah's Witnesses are NOT Christians; Gnostics are not Christians; Nestorians are not Christians, Jews are not Christians, Muslims are not Christians for all the same reasons they all deny that Jesus is one and the same God as the Father and the Spirit, or they deny that Jesus resurrected form the dead, or both.Well said. A Christian is defined as one who affirms/believes "that Jesus is one and the same God as the Father and the Spirit" and that "Jesus resurrected from the dead."
On the other hand, it seems unjust to "reduce" any person to a mere definition though I admit sometimes I blunder into such an error. For me, the important thing to remember is that God unfailingly knows His own, and will save whomever He wills.... My opinion doesn't really matter, in the end. Meanwhile, I have certain obligations WRT my neighbor, regardless of his religious affiliation or lack thereof.
But I do get a bit hot about atheists! The "public atheists" seem devoted to undermining the very structure and fabric of American society.... In effect, I see them as a threat to national security....
JMHO, FWIW
Thank you, dear kosta, for writing!
Apparently you have zero understanding of the Principles and Foundations of our Country.
Our founding fathers were deists and a few Unitarians. They didn't believe in the Bible or the God of the Bible.
Adams, "This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it."
Jefferson, "It is too late in the day for men of sincerity to pretend they believe in the Platonic mysticisms that three are one, and one is three; and yet that the one is not three, and the three are not one. But this constitutes the craft, the power and the profit of the priests." - to John Adams, 1803
"I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature."
"I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in our particular superstition (Christianity) one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology."
"Christianity neither is, nor ever was, a part of the Common Law." -letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, 1814
"Gouverneur Morris had often told me that General Washington believed no more of that system (Christianity) than did he himself." -Thomas Jefferson, in his private journal, Feb. 1800
Benjamin Franklin, ". . . Some books against Deism fell into my hands. . . It happened that they wrought an effect on my quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough Deist." .
"If we look back into history for the character of the present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution. The primitive Christians thought persecution extremely wrong in the Pagans, but practiced it on one another. The first Protestants of the Church of England blamed persecution in the Romish Church, but practiced it upon the Puritans. They found it wrong in Bishops, but fell into the practice themselves both here (England) and in New England."
"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." -in Poor Richard's Almanac
"I looked around for God's judgments, but saw no signs of them." .
"In the affairs of the world, men are saved, not by faith, but by the lack of it."
"It is much to be lamented that a man of Franklin's general good character and great influence should have been an unbeliever in Christianity, and also have done as much as he did to make others unbelievers" (Priestley's Autobiography)
Thomas Paine, "The New Testament, they tell us, is founded upon the prophecies of the Old; if so, it must follow the fate of its foundation.''
"What is it the New Testament teaches us? To believe that the Almighty committed debauchery with a woman engaged to be married; and the belief of this debauchery is called faith." .
"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish Church, by the Roman Church, by the Greek Church, by the Turkish Church, by the Protestant Church, nor by any Church that I know of. My own mind is my own Church. Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all."
"The study of theology, as it stands in the Christian churches, is the study of nothing; it is founded on nothing; it rests on no principles; it proceeds by no authority; it has no data; it can demonstrate nothing; and it admits of no conclusion."
Ethan Allen, Revolutionary War Hero "I have generally been denominated a Deist, the reality of which I never disputed, being conscious I am no Christian, except mere infant baptism makes me one; and as to being a Deist, I know not strictly speaking, whether I am one or not." preface, Reason the Only Oracle of Man
Lincoln, His former law partner, William Herndon, said of him after his assassination: "[Mr. Lincoln] never mentioned the name of Jesus, except to scorn and detest the idea of a miraculous conception. He did write a little work on infidelity in 1835-6, and never recanted. He was an out-and-out infidel, and about that there is no mistake." He also said that Lincoln "assimilated into his own being" the heretical book Age of Reason by Thomas Paine.
Lincoln's first law partner, John T. Stuart, said of him: "He was an avowed and open infidel, and sometimes bordered on atheism. He went further against Christian beliefs and doctrines and principles than any man I have ever heard."
Supreme Court Justice David Davis: "He [Lincoln] had no faith, in the Christian sense of the term-- he had faith in laws, principles, causes and effects."
I could go on for page after page but I hope that is enough to give you the flavor of their 'belief' betty boop.
This Country was founded on Atheist principles, diametrically opposed to religious principles.
Like I told Godzilla, if I did I would be God. I can not be 100% certain that God exists or that he doesn't exist. To declare that I do I would lie to myself and to the whole world that I am all-knowing.
We all choose to err on the side of belief of disbelief in our uncertainty (as getoffmylawn suggested). Thus#151;in all honestlywe are all agnostic to various degrees, unless we are delusional.
Just some stray thoughts, dear kosta. (I wonder whether you realize that I truly do care for you.)
I appreciate that. Things are not as bleak as you present them, bb. I think you said it all when you wrote "For me, the important thing to remember is that God unfailingly knows His own, and will save whomever He wills.... My opinion doesn't really matter, in the end. Meanwhile, I have certain obligations WRT my neighbor, regardless of his religious affiliation or lack thereof."
Let God, then, decide who is his.
Well said. A Christian is defined as one who affirms/believes "that Jesus is one and the same God as the Father and the Spirit" and that "Jesus resurrected from the dead."
Thank you for saying that, bb.
But I do get a bit hot about atheists!
Atheism is a belief; it should not be used as a sword. The same goes for Christianity or any other religion.
The "public atheists" seem devoted to undermining the very structure and fabric of American society.... In effect, I see them as a threat to national security....
I think there are other, much more aggressive and imminent dangers facing us: radical Islam, illegal immigration, dismal economy, demographic tsunamis, political radicalization, etc. that undermine our national security and stability.