Posted on 04/11/2011 8:55:58 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
BOSTON - Barack Obama's aunt, Zeituni Onyango, says Donald Trump disrespected her family by questioning the president's birthplace.
Trump quoted Obama's grandmother when she claimed to have witnessed Barack Obama's birth in Kenya, and Onyango says that is not true.....
(Excerpt) Read more at kplctv.com ...
Placemark.
Sorry Fred, I can’t find a full Obit on that guy and I just read your post instead of Brown Deer’s this time. Didn’t realize you wanted a DOB. I’ll try again tomorrow. I found a DOB info on a bunch of his relatives but not him - yet.
He died July 4, 1998, so he was born between July 5, 1960 and July 4, 1961.
If you juxtapose this interview with Mary Blakes is clear they are talking about different women, and babies...
Sure, the photo may be missing. That might actually be a plus, since it seems that nearly all photos we that we have been provided have been doctored.
Regardless, there are public documents that support the marriage did occur. Sounds like it might have been somewhat of a shotgun wedding after Stanley Ann found out she was pregnant.
WAS OBAMA GIVEN A CERTIFICATE NUMBER WHICH HAD BELONGED TO SOMEONE ELSE?
What does in matter what the title is? Here's what she says:
I looked at the 1960-65 marriage index by groom and confirmed that Obama Sr. was listed there as a groom and Stanley Ann as the bride to confirm that there was a record that he was married to Stanley Ann.
You are most clearly wrong on this matter. This is a long article and probably took me at least 45 minutes to read. I've been reading a lot of articles in their entirety (the Post and Email seems like a great source, among others) because I am extremely interested in knowing, to the best possible degree of certainty, the true Barack, jr nativity story.
It is abundantly clear that you did not read the article. In fact, if you had searched for "marriage," you would have easily found the money quote. Instead you call me a liar???
Here's the relevant text:
I looked at the 1960-65 marriage index by groom and confirmed that Obama Sr. was listed there as a groom and Stanley Ann as the bride to confirm that there was a record that he was married to Stanley Ann.
Thanks for the ping(s). Fascinating (caught up with entire thread). Thanks to every poster. BUMP-TO-THE-TRUTH!
I am going to respond to your #394 at this point and I am not going to quote all of the material to which I am responding. I am also going to contribute on Fractel Trader's #387 at some point today.
The direct answer to your specific question above is found on the U of W transcript. The transcript is a Day School regular University Transcript for Spring Quarter, 1962--the 10 week session beginning in March and running until finals in June. There, she is shown as a regular day school student who completed the classes with the grades set out in that quarter.
The notes on the transcript about her prior classes tell us that she attended class Fall quarter 1961 and Winter quarter 1962; the end dates for those attendances is also shown which are the final's week dates for the final exam in those classes; her grades are shown.
The classes are X classes--which denotes classes in the Extension College. The Night School is part of the Extension College.
Registration for the Night School was conducted on September 19 (actually several days during that week). Classes started the following week, the end of September, 1961.
Note also the communication from Sharon Rondeau which Fred posts at #380. I have never seen that communication before but it confirms exactly what I have been posting for the last two years.
This is to confirm that when Ms. Obama’s record was entered into the Student Data Base, an error had been made and the month was entered as August (8) and not September (9). The staff person made an honest mistake since on the original record the 9 is typed on the line which makes the 9 look like an 8. Our office investigated this, found that the class did not begin until September so corrected the on-line transcript changing the month from August to September.
Or more accurately, as I have said, the month was typed below the fold in a large transcript binder so that the number could not be clearly seen--the clerk who entered the data misread the 9 as an 8 because the type was very small and it looked on the fold as though the bottom loop in the 9 was closed to make the number an 8.
However, as I have also said, it is clear that the number is really a 9--from personal knowledge, I knew that the campus was locked down on August 19, 1961 and I knew further that X classes were registered the end of September to start for the quarter at that time.
One other narrow issue is also disposed of there. The University taught extension classes by correspondence. The typical entry for a correspondence class would have been C or CX. I know of a correspondence class taught fall quarter 1964 which was transcripted as an X class so I was suspicious about the Stanley Ann transcript on that ground. I subsequently learned that the 1964 class was registered in Night School as an X class; the student then moved to Los Angeles and took the last several sessions by correspondence and then returned to Seattle to take the final in December of 1964 and thus the transcript X entry is consistent with our view here.
Your comment about the Tyee is also something we have considered.
The Tyee for the class of 1962 would have pictures taken in the fall of 1961. It included only day school students and Stanley Ann was not a day school student in the fall of 1961--she didn't become one until Spring Quarter 1962.
The Tyee for the class of 1963 would have pictures taken in the fall of 1962 and there is no evidence anywhere that she was there in the fall quarter of 1962.
Further, the Tyee's were not complete. Lots of people were left out. The pictures were a loose operation; so was publication. I don't think you could take much from absence of the picture one way or the other, even if you thought her picture should have been there although as I see the schedule, her picture would never have been there in normal conditions anyway.
Finally, as to possible interaction with her former Mercer Island classmates at the U, I don't take much from absence of information from them either.
The Night School was not part of the regular social order at the U. Day students never saw the Night School students unless they were making a point to do so. By Spring quarter when she was in day school, the social interaction would have been established and the pattern may not have included her.
She was busy; so were the others. If she had an infant son with her in that period, she had real time consuming obligations as well as a demanding school schedule. Many of the day school students were not living on Campus; were working; and would not have had any regular intercourse with someone on Stanley Ann's schedule.
So for all you doubters, the pair was legally married (except for the possibility of bigamy). Those of you who complain that they hardly new each other, never had sex together, or whatever crazy ideas you have about Anne, Anna or whatever, need to reconcile your hypotheses with the fact that they were clearly married.
For those of you who are searching for crazy swapped baby stories and the like, get a life! The married, had a child (in Mombasa) and that child stayed with Stanley Ann through her period in Seattle and Hawaii, and possibly through a trip to Boston. (Note: for all the questions about “Anna”, the Seattle address is a perfect match for the UW transcript, and there is no doubt that this transcript uniquely belonged to Stanley Ann, including her grades from UH.)
By now, Sherlock Holmes would be quite ashamed of your Anna fantasies and switched baby theories.
You probably ought to get a little more control over the tone of your posts.
I think we have consistently been pretty careful to acknowledge the possibility that the real story may in fact me the one you have lifted from the published legend in Dreams. If the legal process ultimately produces a current authenticated print from Zero's foot and a print expert can identify that print to the print on the Mombasa birth certificate showing Stanley Ann as mother and Obama Sr. as father, that will confirm your view.
As we have said, there are a number of reasons to suspect that print will not match.
As to your direct point about using the index to confirm the basic story line of the Legend (Stanley Ann and Obama Sr. met in class; married; went to Kenya and had a child; all to the exclusion of the possibility of a second woman and child in Hawaii being the source of some parts of the legend) Fred's comment in #383 addresses the substance of at least one defect--which is the same defect identified by your unnamed researcher as an anomaly.
The date range has been removed from the Birth Index volume print. As Fred points out: ...The images above are offered as proof that the Birth Index volume is in fact quite different in an important way. It is the only one that lacks the date range. It seems improbable that this would be innocently “overlooked” only in this one book. To suggest so is ridiculous. That is why I published images from the other “types” of books that were printed at the same time the 1960-1964 Birth Index was printed, to show absolutely that the obama Index is the only book lacking the one common, expected, usual official information. The date range.
The suggested explanation is that an accurate depiction of the date range would demonstrate that the Obama child referenced was born earlier than August of 1961--enough earlier that he would had to have been conceived while Stanley Ann was still a student at Mercer Island High School.
That thesis of course is the basis for the suggestion that there was a second Ann Obama in Hawaii with a multi-racial child who was not a child of Stanley Ann and who at least does not fit the story in the Dreams Legend, modified to fit the Kenya birth.
I have never given much credit to any of the purported birth explanations and documents originating with the Hawaii Department of Public Records for the reason that the statutes provide for birth confirmation documents that are not controlled by an effective legal process. The end product is a number of examples in the earlier threads here of individuals who have Hawaii COLB's certifying birth in Hawaii who were not born in Hawaii at all.
I note also that the public releases from officials at the department are carefully crafted around the possible state of facts that the department in fact has never issued any form of certificate with respect to Obama's birth because although they have a complete valid file on the subject, the file discloses on the face of the originating document that he was born, not in Hawaii, but in Mombasa.
And whoever he is, and wherever he came from, he has personally created by his own statements to which there are a number of affidavits in court files, an evidentiary record of statements against interest confirming that he was in fact born in Kenya. That topic is going to need to be addressed separately from the issue at hand here.
The primary point of this thread is the proposition that the record of the current occupant of the White House who is acting as President of the United States is a fake. There are a number of issues about his underlying record that are created by factual inconsistencies with his personal description in Dreams and he and his supporters not only refuse to address those inconsistencies, they have in many cases produced fake documents to refute the inconsistencies.
So the open question is who he is and where he came from. A collateral question is whether or not he is eligible to hold the office of President under Article II, Section 1 of the Constitution.
A HUGE GIGANTIC HUMONGOUS BUMP TO THE TOP FOR A FANTASTIC THREAD!
And David’s comments a such a MUST READ that words cannot express how much.
To this day, I don’t know why you and Fred Nerks attribute such significance to a passage (s?), from The Dreams of My Father. Based on my own research and reading (e.g., Jack Cashil), the book is clearly fictional in nature and should not be relied on as gospel truth.
Furthermore, since there is so much contradictory (and often doctored) information out there, you can’t rely on a simple quote nor a limited set of quotes to exclude another hypothesis. As far as I am concerned, there is no theory which can be entirely consistent with the alleged facts of BHO, jr’s life.
There are many ways to interpret the birth listings at the Hawaii DOH. My personal belief is that the report was recompiled at a later date to include BHO jr’s birth. As a computer professional specializing in developing databases such as these, I find no evidence to support your hypotheses.
You make several observations about the shortcomings of the Birth Records, and I agree with you about the deficiencies. However, there is no reason to doubt the marriage listings, so you can never avoid the conclusion that they knew each other intimately. It would also seem to suggest that this might well have been a bit of a shotgun wedding, since conception would appear to have occurred in November.
My personal belief, which is corroborated in spades from what we already know, is that these most of these records have been subject to tampering by parties affiliated with Obama. For example, I am quite convinced the newspaper announcements were forgeries (http://myveryownpointofview.wordpress.com/2010/05/28/extra-extra-announcing-obamas-birth/). However, there are many documents, including the divorce decree, that all use the August 4th date. I don’t see any direct evidence contradicting this assumption.
You can believe what you want about this Anna character. However, you can’t deny that Stanley and and Barack, sr were married, according to Hawaiian documents. You can’t also deny that Stanley Ann, with baby in tow, was in Seattle taking classes at the UW and living at the same address as indicated by her transcript file. However, it is quite possible that one “fat fingered” typing error could be the source of all confusion regarding her name. As you must certainly know, there are an exceedingly large number of quotes from friends, family and neighbors which confirm that she was in Seattle at this time period, and was carrying along a baby naked Barack that she claimed was the child of Barack sr. It would certainly seem that there were very few other male opportunities in Hawaii for Stanley Ann to have misecgenated with. Given the fact that she was legally married to Barack, sr, I would argue that there is only an infinitesimal chance that the parent was anyone other than Barack, sr.
As I indicated above, most of your line of reasoning seems to take “facts” as given, from a work which is fictional in nature and which was certainly not written by Barack. By judiciously and carefully examining source materials, I can find plenty of evidence that would support the Out of Africa hypothesis, though I have no idea why she would have chosen to go to Kenya. And, by using my exegesis, there is no reason at all for any other Anna character to exist or, more importantly, to have some role in the paternity of Barack, jr. I find a dearth of evidence supporting the Anna hypothesis, compared to many different sources that all confirm the basic outlines of Barack jr’s nativity and early upbringing.
If anyone chooses to exclude hypotheses based on any set of evidentiary fragments, you will discover that there a few, if any, hypotheses that can ever be accepted. The Anna hypothesis excludes a large tranche of forensic evidence that supports the Out of Africa hypothesis and/or Barack jr’s paternity and/or the Seattle sojourn of Stanley Ann accompanied by her cognatus son. In contrast, the Anna hypothesis is fundamentally poorly supported in evidence, testimony, and common sense.
Ping redux . . .
Begin at # 352 and read to the end of the thread. Fred Nerks, Brown Deer, and Natural Born 54 have added new information and photos.
Check out David's comment # 378 , - and Fractal Trader at # 387.
Then David's comments # 409 and # 410.
[Thanks for your dedication, research, and pings.]
See # 412.
IMHO until authentic documentation comes to light, there is so much that cannot be known, even with the best minds working on it. Until authentic documentation - and maybe DNA testing and matching the footprints up - will anyone know for sure who the guy in the White House’s real parents are.
You do have a point. But he fully admits he travelled back and forth between Indonesia and HI a lot in his early years so that could be a legitimate excuse for them being together. Now, *IF* the story about finding his papers is true then chances are they weren't just sitting out there in the open all by themselves but were packed away for safe keeping in a box of other important papers. Makes you wonder what those other important papers might have been.
Just trying to pin point things regarding the Nachmanoff’s party other than lots of booze. I “assuming” it was Arnie who took the pictures since he’s not in them. The order is correct. The first picture would be everyone visiting. Second picture is after Arnie tells them he’s taking pictures and for them to turn around and smile at the camera. He also instructs Ichiro and Kunio (both from Japan) and American Anne to come join the group. The bottle in front of Anne is removed from the table so the camera can see her.
Now, we don’t know if “American Anne” sat down beside Sr. because they were on a date or simply because that was the easiest spot to sit down in similar to how the Japanese guys sat in the front as well.
However, “American Anne” does look like that gal standing beside Sr. in the going away picture with all the leis.
I just saw this on another thread, don’t remember seeing it before but that doesn’t mean anything.
Here’s the thread and excerpt posted thereon:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2705784/posts?page=56
Russian Investigative Report: No evidence of Hawaiian Birth for Obama
The investigator then personally went to the hospital in Mombassa, Kenya. He spoke with the Provincial Civil Registrar and he learned that there were records of Ann Dunham giving birth to “Barack Hussein Obama, III” in Mombassa, Kenya on August 4, 1961. The investigator then “spoke directly with an Official, the Principal Registrar, who openly confirmed the birthing records of Senator Barack H. Obama, Jr. and his mother were present, however, the file on Barack H. Obama, Jr. was classified and profiled. The Official explained Barack Hussein Obama, Jr. [sic] birth in Kenya is top secret. [H]e was further instructed to go to the Attorney General’s Office and to the Minister in Charge of Immigration if [he] wanted further information.” It is alleged that the Kenyan government authorities have refused to cooperate and have thwarted all efforts by anyone to obtain any documents concerning Obama.”
That is a real mind bender. Let’s see; AKA Obama wasn’t born in Kenya but his birth place is declared to be “top secret” by Kenyan officials. There are no records of AKA Obama being born in Kenya and those nonexistent records are being withheld and are “top secret”. That sounds so much like what the official position of AKA Obama could be; “I have nothing to hide but I’m hiding it.”
(Posted by MamaDearest.)
Thanks for the ping LucyT, much appreciated.
IIRC, (truth or whatever) it was Smith who claimed when he got the Kenyan BC that the record book pages appeared to have been taken out and put back in incorrectly or something to that effect. I don’t remember it exactly but where did we get that info from?
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