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To: Antoninus

Not sure how Pro-Catholic the Joan of Arc story is....

She was burned at the stake for heresy via the findings of a Catholic Church court proceedings.

Makes the Catholic Church out to be, at best, the pawns of the politics of the day and thus at the time, the servants of the English.


32 posted on 01/06/2011 11:04:47 AM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: allmendream
Not sure how Pro-Catholic the Joan of Arc story is....She was burned at the stake for heresy via the findings of a Catholic Church court proceedings. Makes the Catholic Church out to be, at best, the pawns of the politics of the day and thus at the time, the servants of the English.

Uh, she's a saint of the Catholic Church. Even at that time, everyone knew that her "trial" was a politically-motivated farce brought about by a cadre of cleric who were pawns of the English. Within a couple decades after her death, she had been completely rehabilitated by the Pope and her persecutors were shamed and their actions condemned.
39 posted on 01/06/2011 11:20:43 AM PST by Antoninus (Fair warning: If Romney's the GOP nominee in 2012, I'm looking for a new party.)
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To: allmendream
"Makes the Catholic Church out to be, at best, the pawns of the politics of the day and thus at the time, the servants of the English.""

Change the too-broad collective noun "Castholic Church" to the narrower and more precise subset "Burgundian lords and the illegal English ecclesiastical court" and you have a true statement.

Keep in mind that almost every conflict in Europe for a millennium could have been described as "good Catholics vs bad Catholics"; this is because most everybody ---even among the high clerics ---was "nominally" Catholic.

The ecclesiatical trial was itself illegal on the face of it by Church law. Bishop Cauchon didn't even have legal jurisdiction; the notary (investigator for the prosecution)could find no adverse evidence and lacked grounds to initiate the trial; they violated Church law by denying Joan's right to a legal adviser; Bishop Cauchon denied her appeals to the Council of Basel and the pope, which would have stopped his proceeding. Etc. The whole thing was a farce, and people knew that even at the time.

And that's one of the elements of pathos in this story. As always --- as even in Jesus' time --- you had corrupt Judas priests in the household of the Faith.

46 posted on 01/07/2011 4:14:49 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("Act, and God will act." ---- St. Joan of Arc, patroness of France)
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