Video: Great Debate On The Whole "Firemen Refuse To Put Out Fire" Controversy

The Hope For America ^ | 10/6/10 | Angela McGlowan, Andy Levy

[careyb]

Andy Levy vs. Angela McGlowan. The fun starts around 4:30 but Halftime Reports are always fun to watch on Red Eye.

[GOPJ]

If you don’t purchase auto insurance and then after an auto accident you tell the insurance company they have to pay for the repairs how far will you get.

Same with homeowners insurance, life insurance, buying AAA protection, etc. etc.

[oldvike]

I would image that alot of folks in that area have RUN to fire station this week to pay their fire protection bill. I feel sorry for the guy but he knew the rules.

[GonzoGOP]

Gift-horse, mouth, get it?

Pay for service horse, gifts are free of charge, fire service is quite obviously not. Get it?

I'm just surprised by the reactions of everyone in this case. The home owner is a twit, a cheapskate, and a moocher. I don't have the slightest sympathy for him. He took his chances and he paid the price.

However the firemen also seem surprised that when they act like they guy who repossess your car that they get treated like repo men instead of heroes. The firemen made a conscious decision to let a house, that could have been saved, burn because of lack of payment. Well they will get paid on time from now on, but don't expect to be loved by the community. Being a mercenary means you get to pick your fights, but it also means you will never have a statue in your honor.

[goodwithagun]

The gift is the FD and city agreeing to extend fire service to rural areas. They very well could have decided to not do so.

[Roccus]

On at least two occasions you have called this a Volunteer FD. That is NOT the case. It is a professional FD paid for by the taxpayers of that city. The homeowner does NOT pay these city taxes. He lives outside the city. The city had decided to allow the FD to answer calls outside the city fire district on a subscription basis. This homeowner CHOSE not to subscribe. His next door neighbor however, did subscribe and his house was saved. If a fireman had been injured saving the house of the UNsubscribed homeowner,(acting outside its jurisdiction) would that fireman be covered by the FD’s insurance carrier?...doubtful.

BTW, I have the same situation where I live. I pay NO TAXES to the county for fire protection. I pay a fee because I am in the "subscriber area", the professional FD house in my nearby city is closer to my home than the nearest VFD and it has more/better equipment than the VFD. The city FD WILL send out a rescue truck to ALL CALLS within its subscriber area in case there are lives at stake, but not send equipment to save unsubscribed property. This is as it should be and I am pleased with this arrangement.

[GonzoGOP]

The gift is the FD and city agreeing to extend fire service to rural areas. They very well could have decided to not do so.

And they demanded to be paid up front for it, and as proven by action not rhetoric they were quite inflexible about the terms of payment. Therefore not a gift. The local grocery store doesn't give you food as a gift. You pay for it, and they provide the product or service. No payment no service. A gift is something given without strings attached. Words have meanings.

The firemen stood buy and let a man's home burn over $75. They may have many virtues, but charity is quite clearly not among them.

[goodwithagun]

Words do have meanings: Since when is charity now a service? Should Walmart be required to give out free food to those who demonstrate need? They had to bring water because there were no hydrants. Had there been another structure fire, they would not have been able to put it out for a paying customer because of their charity towards this dickhead. What happened to the concept of taxation without representation? This guy paid no taxes for the service therefore he receives no representation in the form of fire services. He can purchase it up front but didn’t.
This debate has done one thing here: It has brought the RINO’s out of their closets. Don’t forget that what these firefighters did was first introduced in Phili by Ben Franklin. Pay the fee, get the plaque to hang on your home, your home catches fire and the firefighters will respond. No fee, no plaque, no home.

[Roccus]

In my #25 I said, “I pay NO TAXES to the county for fire protection.” I should add that there IS NO county-wide fire protection.....just a few VFDs.

[E. Pluribus Unum]

I chalk this whole thing up to one of my mom's old sayings. You may have every right to be a jerk, but in the end you are still a jerk.

If nobody paid the fee, there would be no fire department.

Then what, Mother Theresa?

[GonzoGOP]

Since when is charity now a service?

Never, note that I was pointing out that the two were mutually exclusive. It cannot be fee for service and charity at the same time. Charity is a virtue, not a service. Again READ the post. Nobody is required to show virtue, but do not expect to be recognized for virtue when none is shown.

The Firemen are acting like hard nosed business men. And they should be given the same level of respect of anyone else who does a job just for the money. You brought up Walmart. Walmart doesn't keep calling for support the Walmart widows and orphans fund charity. But the Fire Department does. With their actions the fire department decided to go to the level of the DMV. I don't have a problem with that. What I do have a problem with is people who expect us to treat firefighters as something special when they demand a fee for service up front before providing the service.

What happened to the concept of taxation without representation?

This is even better, no taxes involved, just fee for service. I don't have a problem with the whole thing. It is just that if the fire fighters want to play this game they should expect to be treated like any other business.

It has brought the RINO’s out of their closets.

It also appears to have brought out people who don't read posts before going off on a full blown rant.

[GonzoGOP]

If nobody paid the fee, there would be no fire department. Then what, Mother Theresa?

Then stuff burns. Hey I said the firemen had every right to refuse service for lack of payment. However standing there watching someones house burn when you could easily prevent it, and when the home owner offered to pay whatever they demanded, just to make a point dose rank you as a bit ruthless. If you are OK with being ruthless more power to you. But don't present yourself as a public servant when you are actually a contract employee.

[goodwithagun]

The last part wasn’t about your particular post, it was a general comment. That is why I preempted it with what I wrote. Did you not read it? Ultimately, this incident has shown how sensitive the US is to people making hard-nosed business decisions. Are we that used to free handouts that when someone makes a business decision like this people freak out?

[E. Pluribus Unum]

If you are OK with being ruthless more power to you. But don't present yourself as a public servant when you are actually a contract employee.

If you're OK with a country where rules and laws are meant to be disregarded, good luck to you.

The mortgage industry takes your view of things. That's why their foreclosing on people who don't even have mortgages.

[GonzoGOP]

The last part wasn’t about your particular post, it was a general comment. That is why I preempted it with what I wrote.

I did read it. You didn't even do a paragraph break, indicating a change of thought or subject. Since the first part of the paragraph is directed a my comments in particular it was reasonable to assume that any other statements within that paragraph were of similar intent.

[goodwithagun]

Your attack on my paragraph break would indicate that your argument is weak and that you are trying to draw me away from it by attacking something that has nothing to do with the topic. If you no longer want to discuss the fire issue, post a thread about writing etiquette within FR.

[GonzoGOP]

The mortgage industry takes your view of things. That's why their foreclosing on people who don't even have mortgages.

And they should have been more ruthless. The banks tried to be a public service when they should have been run as a business. But then nobody expects to like a banker. Kids don't say I want to be a banker when I grow up. And nobody lets the repo man ride at the front of the parade.

Back to my point, the firemen need to decide if they are a business or a public service. They want the respect of a public service, but then want to play the hard nose money game of a business. I Don't care either way, but they need to decide what they are. If you are a business fine, everyone knows where they stand. But don't expect any special privileges or respect.

And please understand the guy who didn't pay the $75 was an idiot of almost impossible proportions. I have no sympathy for that guy in the least.

[Roccus]

Are we that used to free handouts that when someone makes a business decision like this people freak out?

IMO, it's just a consequence of living under the heel of central planners. Many FReepers that have been on the threads on this subject have no concept of living without fire/police/sewer/water/trash services provided for by the central planners.

[GonzoGOP]

You asked if I read the post. I was showing that i did.

As to the firemen I have no issue with hard nosed capitalism, in fact i greatly prefer it. But everyone should be absolutely clear on the concept. A pure capitalist fire department could not possibly be worse than the city bankrupting union mess we have here in Chicago. I would love if government services were cafeteria style, and everyone could see what it is that they are paying for. I would love to stop paying for the public schools that my kids do not use and that i would never send my kids to.

But if the choice is made to run the fire department as a business, then it must be treated like any other business. No special respect or privileges. Competition would be allowed, at least so far as bidding for the annual contact. No more bilking the taxpayers for inflated pension payments.

[E. Pluribus Unum]

And please understand the guy who didn't pay the $75 was an idiot of almost impossible proportions. I have no sympathy for that guy in the least.

Yes, you do.

You think the fire should have been put out.

You think it's a matter of being "nice."

That attitude is what gave us the helpless welfare class, and a Social Security "Trust Fund" filled with worthless IOUs.

You know that big pension you think you have coming?

Ain't gonna happen, because the federal government decided it was better to be "nice" than have a solvent currency.

[fml]

Back to my point, the firemen need to decide if they are a business or a public service.

In this case they are a business and behaved as such