Posted on 09/07/2010 12:43:35 PM PDT by gjmerits
The Gettysburg speech was at once the shortest and the most famous oration in American history...the highest emotion reduced to a few poetical phrases. Lincoln himself never even remotely approached it. It is genuinely stupendous. But let us not forget that it is poetry, not logic; beauty, not sense. Think of the argument in it. Put it into the cold words of everyday. The doctrine is simply this: that the Union soldiers who died at Gettysburg sacrificed their lives to the cause of self-determination - that government of the people, by the people, for the people, should not perish from the earth. It is difficult to imagine anything more untrue. The Union soldiers in the battle actually fought against self-determination; it was the Confederates who fought for the right of their people to govern themselves.
(Excerpt) Read more at wolvesofliberty.com ...
“When?”
Nullification crises 1833 thou 1860. but really there was talk of secession and the the issues dividing the country all the time. Thats what ever political campaign was about. One side wants this, the other side wants that.
How can you not know that? Eventually when it is clear we can’t agree its always best we go our separate ways.
As Jesus said a house divided against itself cannot stand. So move out!
“Yeah if one doesn’t know what they’re talking about.”
Well you Yankees always had a problem with understanding southern speak, so we’ll just make it easy for ya and move out so ya don’t have to.
Of course a more idea solution is to leave all theses issues to be resolved at the State and local levels rather then forcing us to fight over the “solution” in Washington D.C.
You said:
“And anytime folks like you show up spouting your Southron bullshit and Lost Cause fairy tales, people like us will be here to oppose you.”
I think such folk deserve the government they now have. As I have said many times before: If you can’t respect other people’s right to govern themselves(individually and locally), you ain’t got no right to demand your own way.
Enjoy big government mandates squashing your individualism and your freedom.
You’ll will get no sympathy for me. We’re the people your intent on ruling without our consent. Why should we care that you are ruled without your consent?
You deserve to live by the dictates of the unconditional majority defined “union” you insist we the “minority” are inseparably tied to.
I don’t agree with you, and I fully intend to resist with arms when the time comes that such resistance can be successful. But its the world you create and impose upon others while you have the power to do so.
So you deserve to live under it. Don’t ask for my help.
You should to suffer until you come to realize we are right, that the majority can be oppressive to the rights of the minority, and that no constitution which preports to protect the rights of the minority can mean a dam thing so long as that minority can’t withdraw from the “union” governed by the majority.
The only relevance would be the counties of VA, that now form WV, seceding from VA in '61.
No one on our side thinks that the growth of government power is good. I'm not aware of a single pro-Lincoln conservative who doesn't dislike the tariffs and the railroad subsidies. But it is YOU who are mixing up cause and effect. The crisis brought on by the SLAVE south, hiding behind the mantle of "states' rights," brought on more government power. But guess what? John C. Calhoun (yes, that "states' rights" Calhoun) argued even earlier that not only did southerners have a perpetual right to own slaves, but that their ownership should be protected against all SPEECH against slavery. Here was the great states' rights champion arguing 20 years before the war that no one should be allowed to even question slavery. Sounds to me like the gay-rights/global warming crowds.
IMO while you may call yourself a conservative, i don't see you as one.
Would you mind telling me which area of the country you live in? Which state? I ask because I have a political theory and I just need a data point.
I don’t consider you a conservative. Any person who under any guise justifies slavery then hides behind states’ rights is no different than Obama. And, no, I’m not helping you with your little thought experiment since you think we have nothing left to talk about. Which, I should add, is yet one more trick of the left: When beaten in a debate with their own words and documents, they resort to force.
So why are you still here?
Enjoy Socialism, Yankee comrade you deserve to live by the dictates of your god the all powerful and unchallengeable Federal government.
Whatever.
Based on your FR home page it is Ohio? Correct?
Can you provide some details on these crises? The original Nullification Crisis was over by March 1833 and I'm not aware of any ones after that. Enlighten us all if you please.
How can you not know that? Eventually when it is clear we can’t agree its always best we go our separate ways.
I'm just not blessed with your imagination I guess.
As Jesus said a house divided against itself cannot stand. So move out!
One might suggest the same to you. But leave the territory behind you. It's part of this country.
Well you Yankees always had a problem with understanding southern speak, so we’ll just make it easy for ya and move out so ya don’t have to.
Buh bye.
Of course a more idea solution is to leave all theses issues to be resolved at the State and local levels rather then forcing us to fight over the “solution” in Washington D.C.
So let's test that. The Kelo v New London decision. For it or against it?
What a foolish statement.
What you have are “Americans” and those who hate America. I’ll simply put you down in the latter catagory.
I don't think I feel like getting down in the gutter with another one of you haters. I've had it with you neo-cons. I'm sure that your next reply will charge me with being a 'racist' or homophobe or klansman or maybe you'll be creative (like you are with history) and roll em all into one.
So pretend and revise all you want. You and the Marxists and the Code Pink folks can all make it up as you go along.
How does in feel to dine on bile for breakfast, lunch and dinner?
people like us will be here to oppose you protect our mythology and revisionism.
There. Fixed another one for ya.
Protecting mythology and revisionism is the job of the Lost Causers. The rest of us are here to fight fantasy with truth.
Not to mention bedtime snacks. So tell us, how does it feel?
That reminds me of a certain somebody. He suspended habeas corpus, arrested political dissenters, shut down newspapers, etc.
"You will take possession by military force, of the printing establishments of the New York World and Journal of Commerce... and prohibit any further publication thereof... you are therefore commanded forthwith to arrest and imprison in any fort or military prison in your command, the editors, proprietors and publishers of the aforesaid newspapers... and you will hold the persons so arrested in close custody until they can be brought to trial before a military commission."
Problem, he was your King, not ours...
“Their submission to it’s operation is voluntary: it’s councils, it’s engagements, it’s authority are theirs, modified, and united. It’s sovereignty is an emanation from theirs, not a flame by which they have been consumed, nor a vortex in which they are swallowed up. Each is still a perfect state, still sovereign, still independent, and still capable, should the occasion require, to resume the exercise of it’s functions, as such, in the most unlimited extent.
“Their submission to it’s operation is voluntary: it’s councils, it’s engagements, it’s authority are theirs, modified, and united. It’s sovereignty is an emanation from theirs, not a flame by which they have been consumed, nor a vortex in which they are swallowed up. Each is still a perfect state, still sovereign, still independent, and still capable, should the occasion require, to resume the exercise of it’s functions, as such, in the most unlimited extent.
Seems pretty clear to me since it is voluntary, the states have an inherent right to secede.
“The one bit of logic that cannot be diluted with rhetoric.”
LOL and Amen!
“Their submission to it’s operation is voluntary: it’s councils, it’s engagements, it’s authority are theirs, modified, and united. It’s sovereignty is an emanation from theirs, not a flame by which they have been consumed, nor a vortex in which they are swallowed up. Each is still a perfect state, still sovereign, still independent, and still capable, should the occasion require, to resume the exercise of it’s functions, as such, in the most unlimited extent."
Gee, maybe if you shout loud enough, or use big enough fonts, people won’t notice the portions of the quote that are missing.
“Yadda, yadda, yadda, blah, blah, blah.”
That is the most intelligent argument I have ever seen you make!
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