The Federal Reserve—Deadly Hostility to the Constitution

Vijay Kumar for Congress Blog ^ | 24 February 2010 | Vijay Kumar

[Denriddy]

The Federal Reserve is unconstitutional and must be abolished, returning the powers it has usurped to the Legislative Branch where those powers irrevocably were granted by the People of the United States. ...Any argument that the Federal Reserve was created under the "necessary and proper" clause is absurd. The entire bleat of the Federal Reserve against being audited is to preserve its "independence" in monetary policy! That is a blatant admission that it is a law unto itself, a sovereign that has usurped control of, stolen, the entire wealth of this nation.

[bvw]

That’s what the Constitution clearly says. That is not that Congress ‘determines’ minute to minute, or month to month, how much money should be in the system, but rather that Congress may mint amounts of new coinage of standard weight, and that any paper (or any form of non-coin currency and note) be directly exchangeable for than coin.

You don’t like the Constitution? Or the hard-earned wisdom of the Founders?

[Mase]

Btw, if Congress won't determine the money supply in your new world, who will?

Will you go back to a gold standard?

Because prices were so stable under gold?

What happens if the economy grows faster than the supply of gold? Is deflation good?

[Sprite518]

LOL! Oh so we are stable now? Are you kidding me?

Gold has been the standard since Jesus was on Earth. What eventually happens to a currency if you print money out of thin air? The Gold standard was the standard until the 70s and Nixon.

BTW, the standard does not have to be gold. Long as you have the currency backed by anything other than nothing. Do you know the Federal Reserve is as federal as Fed Ex? Do you know the names behind the Federal Reserve. Please see my post 37, and watch the link at the bottom.

It's difficult to have a debate if we do not agree on the facts. It's about an hour long on all 12 parts, but worth it. Then we can continue to debate.

[Mase]

Again, for almost one hundred years the Fed has been constitutional and no one has successfully challenged its existence even though it's so flagrantly obvious that the Fed isn't legal. That's what you're trying to sell here. I wish you good luck with that but it is a waste of valuable time.

Someone as confused as you are probably shouldn't be interpreting the Constitution or trying to channel the hard-earned wisdom of the FF's.

[Mase]

We are much more stable today then we were before the Fed. Just look at the chart. I'm not interested in conspiracy theories about banking cabals or any other tin foil nonsense. I'm also not interested in blaming the joooooooos for anything. Maybe we could bring back salt as a currency, or as a commodity backing fiat money. Luddites are Luddites whether they eschew a modern economy or the financial system that created it.

I hope your income continues to outpace inflation as it has done for the past century (or more).

[bvw]

The Founders were strongly opposed to fiat money. Scholars closer to their generation have noted that. For example:

Once only, by the third legal-tender decision, has the court markedly failed in the chief purpose for which it was created, and this failure is the more extraordinary, for none knew better than the judges that it was to prevent just such outrages as fiat money that the national government was created, and that the very words "legal tender," except as applied to intrinsic money for commercial and legal convenience, are a He and a fraud, through which someone is to be robbed. To allege that the " right to make notes of the government a legal tender" has been deemed "one of the powers of sovereignty in other civilized nations," which were the grounds on which the decision was based, was to place our national government on a par with those which have notoriously been planned for the benefiting of some at the expense of others, and to destroy the very pledge of justice that the majority gave to the minority in 1788.

-- Paul Leicester Ford, editor, in his introduction to the 1903 Henry Holt Publisher Edition of the Federalist Papers

Who was Paul Leicester Ford? [Adapted from Wikipedia]

Paul Leicester Ford (1865 - 1902) was an American novelist and biographer, born in Brooklyn. He was the great-grandson (through his mother's family) of Noah Webster and the brother of the noted historian Worthington C. Ford. He wrote lives of George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, and others, edited the works of Thomas Jefferson, and wrote a number of novels, which had considerable success.

Ford's edition of The Writings of Thomas Jefferson is still regarded as one of the monuments of American historical scholarship.

[Adapted from Wikipedia]

[bvw]

Link to GoogleBooks scanned version of Ford’s book:

http://books.google.com/books?id=3GASAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q=&f=false

[Denriddy]

DannyTN: “This guy is running for public office? Good grief.”

Jim Cooper: izzat you?

[Sprite518]

Conspiracy = You don’t believe the government line

You have to be kidding me? Our currency is about to collapse. If we do not change our current track, then our currency will collapse within 2 years.

So I guess then you must believe the government’s position on Global warming, Social Security and medicare will not run out, and everything Obama says? Because after all they care about you and it’s not about power. If person lied to you as much as our government does, then do you mean to tell me you would believe EVERYTHING they say? LOL!

Who is talking about blaming a religion? LOL! You brought that up not me Pal! I guess I have won this argument since you have seem to talking about absurd things that are NOT even worth addressing.

All I talking about is Fiscal Responsibility as our Founding Fathers wanted, and perserving our republic. This is also why we did not have a central bank from the get go.

Here now look at this conspiracy. This is your idea of a stable currency. LOL!

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

[bvw]

For the record one of my learned objections to fiat money comes via the Me’Am Lo’Ez — a multi-volume Jewish religious exposition on the Torah written by the Sephardi scholar Rabbi Yaakov Culi in 1730.

In a section on charity giving he mentions that in his time it is not uncommon for some to make a show of giving a gold coin where others give a bronze one. But that due to coin shaving and re-alloying the gold coin is actually worth less than the bronze one. That is also a form of “fiat money”, especially when the crown changed the alloy mix and demanded old good coin be exchanged one-for-one with new, cheaper alloy coin.

The Founders insisted on coinage of standard weight and measure!

[Denriddy]

DannyTN: "I think nobody filed a lawsuit, because it's obvious to most of us that Congress does in fact have authority to delegate responsibility." Well, maybe it's the "thinking" part that's making you look foolish. The Supreme Court refused to hear We The People v. United States (case No. 07- 681) as recently as February 22, 2008. Here, go to the link below, and come back and answer all 57 questions in the Petition for Redress on this subject, and then I might start to take you seriously. Till then, I won't waste any more time with you: http://www.givemeliberty.org/FreedomDrive/Redress/PetitionFed.htm

[Leisler]

Of course prices went down. We became more productive. Declining prices stimulate innovation.

[Leisler]

Why should the Fed get credit for example Henry Ford, and all the progress made by scientist and such? For instance, has China’s growth been done mainly by its people being somewhat liberated or due to the Chines Central Bank, which in fact has been hurting domestic Chinese laborer.

[DannyTN]

"The Supreme Court refused to hear We The People v. United States (case No. 07- 681) as recently as February 22, 2008. "

"On August 9, 2007, the United States District Court for the Northern District of New York ruled that some the (We The People) Foundation's activities constituted the promotion of an illegal tax shelter by means of a statement or statements that the promoter "knows or has reason to known is false or fraudulent as to any material matter" under Internal Revenue Code section 6700 (26 U.S.C. § 6700), and that a court order prohibiting those activities under 26 U.S.C. § 7408 was appropriate." - Wikipedia

"On February 22, 2008, the United States Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit affirmed the judgment of the District Court." - Wikipedia

So the tax dodger Shultz lost in District court, the Second Circuit ruled against him, and the Supreme Court didn't see enough merit to the case to hear the case.

And this has bearing on the Federal Reserve how?

[DannyTN]

Repeat: What is your connection to Kumar's campaign?
You've been on FR for two days and you've posted two articles about Kumar.

[Mase]

Conspiracy = You don’t believe the government line

Uh huh. In this case conspiracy means believing the Fed is owned by entities other than those that do.

Our currency is about to collapse. If we do not change our current track, then our currency will collapse within 2 years.

I know, I know.....then we'll find ourselves killing each other outside the Kroger fighting over the last box of Cornflakes. It's gonna be ugly. Real wrath of God sort of stuff....dogs and cats living together, human sacrifice.....

So I guess then you must believe the government’s position on Global warming, Social Security and medicare will not run out, and everything Obama says? Because after all they care about you and it’s not about power. If person lied to you as much as our government does, then do you mean to tell me you would believe EVERYTHING they say?

You should be careful. A strawman that big could topple and crush you.

I guess I have won this argument since you have seem to talking about absurd things that are NOT even worth addressing.

I'm talking absurdity while you're trying (although I'm not really sure what it is you're talking about) to get us to believe that our national debt has been caused by the Federal Reserve rather than our government spending more than it takes in? Fur sure. If that's what you consider "winning" then have at it!

All I talking about is Fiscal Responsibility as our Founding Fathers wanted, and perserving our republic.

I'm all for fiscal responsibility. However, it's a great leap for you to somehow indict the Fed for the inability of Congress to live within its means.

This is also why we did not have a central bank from the get go

You don't consider the First Bank a central bank even thought it created a standard form of currency?

I'm still waiting for you to show us just how stable prices were prior to the Fed.

[Mase]

Who's Jim Cooper, n00b? Did you join here just to promote your guy Kumar?

[Mase]

Declining prices stimulate innovation.

Because businesses rush to invest in plant, equipment and intellectual property when it will be even cheaper next year? How does innovation result from a decline in investment and falling incomes?

[Mase]

All I asked is if you have a chart showing where our incomes have gone, in relationship to inflation, over the same time period. Has our real income increased faster than the rate of inflation over than time period? Yes or no?

[bvw]

Stable prices on what?