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Being born in the United States does not even make one a 'NATIVE' citizen.
nobarack08 | Feb 12, 2010 | syc1959

Posted on 02/12/2010 12:35:44 PM PST by syc1959

Being born in the United States does not even make one a 'NATIVE' citizen.

Immigration and Citizenship: Process and Policy fourth edition Under Jus Soli, the following is written "The Supreme Court's first holding on the sublect suggested that the court would give a restrictive reading to the phrase, potentially disqualifing significant number of persons born within the physical boundries of the nation. In Elk v. Wilkins 112 U.S. 94, 5 S.CT. 41, 28 L.ED. 643 (1884), the court ruled that native Indians were not U.S. citizens, even if they later severed their ties with their tribes. The words "subject to the jurisdiction thereof," the court held, mean "not merely subjct in some respect or degree to the jurisdiction of the United States, but completely subject to their political jurisdiction, and owing them direct and immediate allegiange." Most Indians could not meet the test. "Indians born within the territorial limits of the United States, members of, and owing immediate allegiance to, one of the Indian Tribes, (an alien through dependent power,) although in a geographical sense born in the United States, are no more 'born in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof,'*** then the children of subjects of any foreign government born within the domain of that government ***. Id. at 102. It continues that Congress eventually passed legislation with the 'Allotment Act of 1887, that conferred citizenship on many Indians.

The fact remains, the Court held, complete and sole Jurisdiction. As I have held that being born anywhere in the United States, jurisdiction is required, sole and complete, and Barack Hussein Obama was already claimed by British jurisdiction under the British Nationailty Act of 1948, and as such fails the United states Constitutional requirement of a Natural Born Citizen.

“When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom’s dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.‘s children.

Barack Hussein Obama did not have sole jurisdiction under the United States.

Title 8 and the 14th Amendment clearlt state the following;

All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof

Note: 'subject to the jurisdiction thereof'


TOPICS: Government; Politics
KEYWORDS: barack; birthcertificate; birthers; certifigate; citizen; illegal; nativeborncitizen; naturalborn; naturalborncitizen; obama; undocumented
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To: Las Vegas Ron
"They also exluded citizens"

They did? So... how does that work. Since natural born citizens are citizens, who gets to be President then? Patagonians?

You have just crossed the line into Bizzaroland with Steve.
801 posted on 02/15/2010 4:28:17 PM PST by EnderWiggins
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To: EnderWiggins; BP2; All
"I was born on US soil to two citizen parents. And just BTW, they were also both born on US soil. And yet, under Italian law I am a citizen of Italy without ever assuming anything afterward."

You are a Natural Born Citizen because born on soil and citizen parents.

America does not recognize dual loyalty.

Every naturalized citizen has to swear an oath of allegiance to ONLY the united states(singular allegiance)

A baby at birth cannot swear, nor understand, such an oath of allegiance.

Therefore, it would seem reasonable to me that that allegiance can ONLY be transferred through the parents of the child.

Just as the child is under the control of the parent(s)the parent(s)are under the jurisdiction of the State.

And just as parent(s) would extract exclusive loyalty from THEIR child, so the State would extract exclusive loyalty from THEIR citizens.

As I said, how could allegiance be transfered if not through parents?

Now the problem is what if such a baby (born in USA) has an American mother and a foreign national father?

Following the aforementioned reasoning the babies allegiance would be split, would it not?

One can see following this analogy -- parents (are to) child; as state (is to) parents -- that being born in country to American parents solves the problem of divided loyalties in a NATURAL way.

It's not a question of how many countries can "claim" we are citizens of same... but rather the transmission of citizenship and the concomitant loyalty -- so attached at birth -- through one's parents.

STE=Q

802 posted on 02/15/2010 4:32:16 PM PST by STE=Q ("It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government" ... Thomas Paine)
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To: EnderWiggins
You thus admit that Blackstone did not use the specific phrase at issue, which is "natural born citizen." A natural born "subject" of the king in England is not the same as the phrase actually chosen. Schneider v. Rusk as quoted in Craig plainly says that "citizenship" does not and cannot alter the meaning of the consciously chosen phrase in Article II, Section 1, Clause 5. Fuller's dissent was about citizenship and the common law. Neither the dissent nor the majority opinions in Wong Kim Ark dealt with the phrase in Article II, Section 1, Clause 5. Neither do you. Yuo keep avoiding the actual issue based on the surmise, which is not supported by the notes of those who were in the constitutional convention, that the framers were controlled by your ideas of what citizenship meant at common law. The Convention notes make clear that Vattel was among authors and influences who were continually discussed. Since the phrase used is not one from common law but is found in Vattel's "Law of Nations" it is more likely that John Marshall was correct and your surmises are what they are, unsupported speculation. Your entire argument is that 14th amendment concepts of citizenship as you divine them from the common law embrace the phrase actually chosen. It is not in my humble opinion, a valid argument. By the way Fuller's opinion, like many dissents, is highly regarded. Your surmises don't really have any support except in your own mind.
803 posted on 02/15/2010 4:38:41 PM PST by AmericanVictory (Should we be more like them or they more like we used to be?)
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To: STE=Q

Of course I am talking about Natural Born Citizenship.


804 posted on 02/15/2010 4:38:46 PM PST by STE=Q ("It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government" ... Thomas Paine)
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To: STE=Q

babies = baby’s


805 posted on 02/15/2010 4:41:27 PM PST by STE=Q ("It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government" ... Thomas Paine)
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To: STE=Q
"You are a Natural Born Citizen because born on soil and citizen parents."

Well, no. I am a natural born citizen because I was born on US soil and not the child of a foreign diplomat or occupying army. But yes, I also fit the most extreme of the bogus Birther definitions too, so there is no debate that I am, in fact, an NBC.

"America does not recognize dual loyalty."

If by "dual loyalty" you actually mean dual citizenship, you are quite wrong. Go read the State Department's website. They're not all warm and fuzzy on the concept, but they recognize it none the less.

"Every naturalized citizen has to swear an oath of allegiance to ONLY the united states(singular allegiance)"

Absolutely true.

"A baby at birth cannot swear, nor understand, such an oath of allegiance."

Exactly. Very good. Just as Obama at birth could not swear an oath of Allegiance. That is why, by law, his allegiance automatically belongs to the nation under whose jurisdiction he was when he was born. In his case(as in mine) that is the United States of America.

"Therefore, it would seem reasonable to me that that allegiance can ONLY be transferred through the parents of the child."

And you were doing so well. No... allegiance is an obligation owed for protection and jurisdiction at birth. As Blackstone explains:

"Natural allegiance is such as is due from all men born within the king's dominions immediately upon their birth. For, immediately upon their birth, they are under the king's protection; at a time too, when (during their infancy) they are incapable of protecting themselves. Natural allegiance is therefore a debt of gratitude; which cannot be forfeited, cancelled, or altered, by any change of time, place, or circumstance, nor by any thing but the united concurrence of the legislature."

Blackstone, William. Commentaries on the Laws of England: A Facsimile of the First Edition of 1765--1769. Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1979. Pp. 357-8

"As I said, how could allegiance be transfered if not through parents?"

Reread Blackstone's explanation above. It is the same explanation agreed on explicitly by the US Supreme Court.

"Following the aforementioned reasoning the babies allegiance would be split, would it not?"

No. The baby's allegiance is determined by place of birth.
806 posted on 02/15/2010 4:47:53 PM PST by EnderWiggins
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To: EnderWiggins

A law is a Legal definition and the US constitution is a definition of what our Government consists of.


807 posted on 02/15/2010 4:48:11 PM PST by usmcobra (Your chances of dying in bed are reduced by getting out of it, but most people still die in bed)
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To: Las Vegas Ron

“I’ve fastend myself to the floor so I can’t be spun in circles :)”

LOL!

STE=Q


808 posted on 02/15/2010 4:48:48 PM PST by STE=Q ("It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government" ... Thomas Paine)
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To: EnderWiggins
They did? So... how does that work. Since natural born citizens are citizens, who gets to be President then? Patagonians?

Are you deliberately obtuse or does it come natural?

Senate and House:

Clause 3: No Person shall be a Senator who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty Years, and been nine Years a Citizen of the United States, and who shall not, when elected, be an Inhabitant of that State for which he shall be chosen.

POTUS:

No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President

Clearly, anyone who is not deliberately twisting words and obfuscating facts, or even hiding from them will see that the requirements are specifically defined and DIFFERENT.

Why, what is the difference? Naturalized Citizens, Citizens are not necessarily Natural Born Citizens

If you cannot post back without answering the question, don't bother, I'll assume you can't, because well, you can't.

809 posted on 02/15/2010 4:49:38 PM PST by Las Vegas Ron ("Because without America, there is no free world" - Canada Free Press - MSM where are you?)
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To: Las Vegas Ron
Have you seen this one:
Benjamin Franklin thanking Dumas for the three copies of
Vattel’s Law of Nations he sent to Franklin in 1775

Dumas’ Cipher — Benjamin Franklin's Favorite Cipher
Franklin's letter to Dumas dated April 30, 1776

This passage is taken from the introduction Dumas wrote of a book he sent to Franklin: Emerich de Vattel’s Le droit des gens (Law of Nations). Dumas had reprinted this work with his introduction and notes that applied its principles to the situation in America and had sent three copies to Franklin in 1775 (Franklin acknowledges it in his letter of December 19, 1775).
Since Dumas’ cipher is based on a passage in French, each letter has as many homophones as proportional to its frequency in French and K and W, not used in French, are not assigned a number. While the table illustrated above shows numbers 684-694 for W, these are struck out with a note “make use of two vs”. As for K, there is an instruction “use C”.

http://www.h4.dion.ne.jp/~room4me/america/franklin.htm

810 posted on 02/15/2010 4:52:49 PM PST by DaveTesla (You can fool some of the people some of the time......)
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To: AmericanVictory
"You thus admit that Blackstone did not use the specific phrase at issue, which is "natural born citizen." A natural born "subject" of the king in England is not the same as the phrase actually chosen.:

The US Supreme Court calls BS on that. I quote again from Wong Kim Ark:

"The term "citizen," as understood in our law, is precisely analogous to the term "subject" in the common law, and the change of phrase has entirely resulted from the change of government. The sovereignty has been transferred from one man to the collective body of the people, and he who before as a "subject of the king" is now "a citizen of the State."

Fullers dissent remains a dissent. It is the argument that lost 6-2.
811 posted on 02/15/2010 4:53:17 PM PST by EnderWiggins
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To: EnderWiggins; All

I clearly know a LOT more about it than you do.

The question wasn’t about “Naturalized” citizens. The question was about Citizen Vs. Natural Born Citizen.

Better READ posts before you pop off... You are making a complete ass of yourself.

Not that you could make yourself look more partisan and biased than you already do, you can’t help your case anyway.

And yes, I am also saying YOU are not a Natural Born Citizen either.

I am, 100%. Born to two parents who were citizens and born on the soil of this Nation. I have no divided loyalties in regards to either citizenship or Nationality.

IMHO You were so shocked to find that you are not a natural born citizen that you are grasping at straws, straw-man arguments, partial quotes, and deliberate miss-interpretations of several SCOTUS cases which you show a woeful and frankly disappointing knowledge of.

As I have said on more than one occasion, you had best take your drivel elsewhere. You are only falling further and further behind in an argument that you can’t win.

There is ONLY one solution, bring the case to SCOTUS. I feel confident that my opinion will win the day.

Not a thing you have said since you miraculously arrived here with your bravado in January of 2010 has led anyone to believe that you are a legitimate constitutional conservative. That is what this site is about.

I suggest you move on, Free Republic does not seem to fit you, and take this to the bank, we won’t be bending our beliefs to fit yours anytime soon. Particularly when they are so uninformed.


812 posted on 02/15/2010 4:56:21 PM PST by Danae (Don't like our Constitution? Try living in a country with out one.)
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To: usmcobra

consider the following.
Obot’s like [giggleyPuff] like being lied to, they are so desperate for affection and starved for acceptance that in the face of blantant lies and deception, they are willing to stay in a bad relationship. Just like self-abusers they know no better, this is they way they have always been.

Here is a list of 150+ lies, that they have been told, but instead of waking up and getting out of an abusive relationship, they continue to believe in the abuser. It’s just their self destructive nature.

Ops, time for gigglePuff to braekout that ol prayer rug again.

Obama’s Documented LIES: 158 and remarkably still growing
# 158 Obama claims he wrote letter to US Treasurer to try to prevent the housing
crisis; but he acted only AFTER he had caused it by blocking McCain’s bill
# 157 Obama claims he is bipartisan ; Congressional Quarterly shows he voted with
his party 97% of the time
# 156 Obama’s dirty lie scares seniors: falsely claims McCain plans to cut $880
billion from Medicare: liar liar liar says Annenberg Factcheck
# 155 Obama lies about his mother turning to food stamps AND still sending him to
top schools; his grandmother paid for education
# 154 Obama lied about being asked to wear dead soldier’s bracelet: family had
asked Obama to stop wearing it
# 153 Obama claimed all new spending is economic plan was self-funding; short by
$3.5 Trillion says nonpartisan Tax Policy Center
# 152 Obama denied Admiral Mike Mullen had called Obama’s Iraqi troop plan
“dangerous”; Mullen made comment on Fox in July 2008 according to WaPo
# 151 Obama lied about Kissinger’s views of diplomacy during first debate;
Kissinger confirms the lie
# 150 During Debate 1 Obama denied voting to tax some people making $42000 a year:
Annenburg Factcheck,org confirms Obama is lying
# 149 After Debate 1, Team Obama denied Obama ever said, “Iran’s not a threat”:
Video proves Obama DID say “Iran is NOT a threat.”
# 148 Obama claims under McCain employers would be taxed on the health care
benefits it grants to workers; he’s lying
# 147 Obama refers to an Iraqi surplus of $79 billion and says US should have it;
its $60 billion and dwindling
# 146 Obama claims only 5% of Americans would see tax increase; he’s grossly
understating the number of people effected
# 145 Obama accuses McCain of lying about Biden being against clean coal; video
proves Obama is lying
# 144 Obama claims McCain is opposed to abortion in cases of rape or incest;
McCain has never held that position.
# 143 Obama accuses McCain of making an ad about Obama’s vote to approve leaving
babies who survive abortion procedures to die; McCain did not make the ad
# 142 Obama’s ad on abortion claims BHO always supported medical care to protect
infants; text of the Bill he supported shows he wanted babies born alive after
abortions to be left to die
# 141 Obama’s ad on abortion uses quotes by journalists who made negative comments
about a McCain ad; but Obama is misleading because both journalists have been
proven to be incorrect
# 140 Obama’s lying when he says McCain’s ad misstated BHO’s Sex Ed for
Kindergartners Bill: McCain’s ad was accurate; here’s the Sex Ed Bill text
# 139 Obama and Biden both truncate McCain’s comments on the strength of the
economy’s fundamentals: deliberate distortion
# 138 Biden claims McCain tried to hurt our veterans by denying them educational
benefits; NewsWeek confirms Biden is lying
# 137 Obama claims under McCain, Elderly would have had Social Security tied up in
the Stock market; Newsweek cries BS
# 136 Obama claims his opponent will cut social security in half: NOT true; Obama
guilty of scare-mongering aimed at Seniors
# 135 Biden claims McCain wouldn’t help small borrowers hurt by housing crisis;
this is untrue according to Newsweek
# 134 Obama claimed during the primary he had more Ex President Clinton Foreign
Policy advisers than Sen. Clinton; she had 70% more
# 133 Obama claimed his father served in World War 2: his Kenyan-born father never
served
# 132 Obama grossly misquoted Sen.Clinton about her vote on a banking bill; BHO
used the false quote to show why voters don’t trust Government
# 131 Obama claimed employers are more likely to be struck by lightning than be
prosecuted for employing illegals; Gov stats prove he’s lying
# 130 Pushing his Green agenda Obama claimed Japanese Car average 45 mpg fuel
efficiency; its actually around 29 mph
# 129 Obama disparaged the President saying he hadn’t met with auto makers until
the sixth year of his presidency; GWB met automakers in April 2003
# 128 Obama disparaged the efficiency of our healthcare system saying the U.S.
spends twice per capita than other countries: WaPo proves he’s lying
# 127 Obama claims President Clinton’s Labor Secretary said BHO’s healthcare plan,
“Does more than anybody to reduce costs”; Robert Reich did NOT say it
# 126 Obama falsely claimed he won the Michigan Democrat primary: he was not on
the ballot
# 125 Obama’s Spanish language ad lies about McCain’s position on immigration;
tries to stir race-war: lies debunked by ABC
# 124 Obama lies about his interference in Iraqi negotiations; but his campaign
admits his treachery
# 123 Obama took credit for the economic stimulus package passed in Feb 08; BHO’s
colleagues on Capitol Hill cry BS
# 122 Obama claims Big Oil is ignoring 68 million acres of oil fields they could
be drilling; most fields are being worked
# 121 Obama claims never questions his opponent’s patriotism; asks of McCain
“WHICH country first?”: ABC says he’s questioning McCain’s patriotism
# 120 Obama claims personal savings rates are lowest since the Great Depression;
currently higher than under President Clinton
# 119 Obama claims on this video that he doesn’t switch positions; list of 31 flip
flops show he’s lying
# 118 In the Primaries Obama puffed his resume claiming he was a “Professor”;
State Senate bio shows he was not ; he now agrees
# 117 When Obama ran for US Senate his web site claimed “5 years as a community
organizer”; he admits it was only 3 years
# 116 Obama’s attack ad in Michigan claims McCain doesn’t support loan guarantees
for auto-industry. McCain DOES support them
# 115 Obama says “if we’re STILL in recession when he takes office...etc”; the
economy is NOT in recession
# 114 Obama claims he signed up for Selective Service when he graduated from High
School; records show he did NOT until he’d been at college 1 year
# 113 Attacking Palin, Obama has the audacity to claim,”Words mean something; you
can’t just make things up “; BHO makes stuff up
# 112 Biden claims McCain will increase taxes for workers & Obama will only
increase taxes on those making $435k: he’s lying
# 111 Biden claims Obama drew the Nation’s attention to problems at Walter Reed
Army Hospital; it was two WaPo reporters that reported the issues to the Nation
# 110 to make Obama seems more American/less exotic, Biden tells Scranton crowd
Obama grew up in Kansas; BHO grew up in Hawaii and Indonesia
# 109 Obama lies yet again to disparage Gov. Palin; ignores her executive
experience as Governor of Alaska
# 108 Obama says the US economy has failed under Bush; World Bank stats proves
Obama’s been lying; US a world leader in growth, employment, incomes
# 107 Obama claims if you are born into poverty in America you are on your own:
there are many government programs
# 106 Obama claims he’s bi-partisan: voting records prove Obama is #11 most
partisan
# 105 Claimed Hillary would be on anyone’s short-list; Hillary wasn’t on Obama’s
short-list
# 104 Obama claims abortion rates have not gone down under the Bush
Administration; stats show they have gone down
# 103 Obama dismissed Bomber Bill Ayers as “some guy who lives in the
neighborhood”;they had a close working relationship
# 102 Obama claims there’s no charge to attend his acceptance speech: CBS 4 in
Denver proves he’s lying; some tickets cost $1000
# 101 Obama used being a first-time-buyer to justify consulting with Rezko before
he bought his house; BHO had already purchased a residence
# 100 Obama lies about his support for infanticide; campaign concedes in 03 he
opposed a bill stopping the killing of kids born alive after abortions
# 99 Obama overstates Oil Industry’s contributions to McCain; ignores cash the Oil
industry gave BHO; Newsweek debunks
# 98 To belittle America,Obama exaggerated the growth in Debt under the current
Administration; debunked by WaPo
# 97 Obama claims President George W Bush had not left the country before he
became President; WaPo confirms he’s lying
# 96 To promote “green”, Obama claimed he drove a vehicle that uses ethanol; GM
confirmed the model was NOT ethanol-ready
# 95 Obama claims he’s taking his family for a week’s rest in Hawaii with no
campaigning; schedules a rally for first day
# 94: Obama claims “properly inflating tires” will save as much energy as we could
drill offshore; analysis shows not even close
# 93 Obama denies accusing McCain of using race against him; ABC, NYT confirm
Obama did accuse McCain of making racial attacks
# 92 Obama claims he’s not being political when he’s flip-flopping; timing &
direction of major flip-flops show he’s lying
# 91: Obama INVENTS a wall between Christians and Jews; deceptively omits the
major religious wall is caused by a “fatwah” to kill American Christians and Jews
# 90 Obama claims he made a substantive call for Germany to help in Iraq; Berlin
speech transcript proves he’s lying
# 89: Obama admits he underestimated the decline in violence from the Surge;
falsely claims McCain made same mistake
# 88 Obama turned a disappointing crowd of 20,000 into media reports of 200,000
# 87 Obama lied about his father’s religious upbringing! half-brother confirms
Obama’s father was “RAISED Muslim”
# 86 Obama claimed we only made one fundraising trip to Florida during the
Primary; Florida papers proved he lied
# 85 Claims reducing obesity to 80’s levels would save Medicaid ONE TRILLION
DOLLARS; not even close
# 84 To make Iraq/Afghan Wars look bad, Obama claimed demands on Nat Guard
personnel hurt flood relief; Guards prove lying
# 83 Claimed due to overseas commitments, too few helecopters were available to
help with Midwest flood relief; now concedes not true
# 82 Starting in Iowa, Obama claimed Clinton’s healthcare plan would “punish
families that couldn’t afford healthcare”; NYT calls BS
# 81 Obama claims McCain’s tax plan will do nothing to help the middle-class: The
Tax Policy Center proves he’s lying
# 80 claims the use of an Email with a big red DONATE button is NOT a fundraising
solicitation
# 79 Obama claims his trip to Europe was non-political: uses video of Berlin
speech to raise money within hours
# 78 Tells NBC that during the debate on the Surge he said the Surge would work in
Baghdad; video proves during the debate he said the opposite
# 77 Obama’s “Changing World” ad claims he’ll fast-track alternatives to oil to
stop us buying from hostile nations; “fast track” is totally misleading
# 76 Obama tells Israeli media that he’s a member of the Senate Banking Committee;
CNN confirms he’s delusional
# 75 Obama claims Lou Dobbs caused hate crimes against Latinos to double; the FBI
and CNN confirm Obama is lying
# 74 Obama claims the military brass think like he does; top US commanders say his
plan for Iraq is unworkable
# 73: Obama promised to filibust FISA; later Obama voted for FISA and now denies
changing his position
# 72 Obama belittles Americans claiming we can’t speak European languages; he’s
talking merde; mierda; Scheiße
# 71 Obama denied he accused President Bush of starting the War for political
reasons; Russert transcript proves Obama made that false claim
# 70 Obama claims there has been substantial job losses from NAFTA; Independent
studies show its at least” job neutral”
# 69 Claimed in Feb 08 he got 90% of funds from donors giving $25, $50; fed
filings show he got only about a third from donors below $200
# 68 Obama rewrites history about what specifically he had said during his October
2002 anti-war speech
# 67 Obama claimed in 04 that he had never supported bringing troops out of Iraq;
rare video of 03 Teamsters rally shows he’s lying
# 66 Obama lied about the softness of the Stock Market to support his false claim
the War was being used to distract the public
# 65 To justify move to private funds, Obama claims McCain’s campaign is” fuelled”
by PACs and Lobbyists; its less than 2% of McCain’s money
# 64 Obama’s “Dignity” ad claims he “worked his way” thru college and law school;
campaign admits only two summer jobs
# 63 Obama’s “Dignity” ad gives him credit for reducing Welfare rolls by 80%: he’s
deceptive as he was opposed to Fed Welfare Reform in ‘96
# 62 In Obama’s The Country I love ad, he takes credit for passing a healthcare
bill he did NOT vote for
# 61 Claims he first ran in Chicago as an unendorsed candidate; his ‘96 election
questionnaire proves he had several
# 60 Obama claims he wants a vigorous and open debate on the issues: then goes out
of his way to avoid it
# 59 Obama omits key details about a false rumor re video of Michelle’s “whitey”
rant to justify breaking his public funding promise
# 58 Obama tries to deceive about why he voted “present” more than 100 times in
the Illinois Senate; Chicago paper reveals the truth
# 57 Trying to claim patriotism Obama says his grandad signed up the day after
Pearl Harbor; army records disagree
# 56 Claims race and party not important to how people vote as they put America
first; 93% block vote disproves
# 55 On June 5, Obama stated that Israel must remain undivided; June 6 on CNN he
reversed his position, but denied he had done so
# 54 To further his own agenda, Obama grossly overstates the number of potential
African-American votes in MS, GA, SC
# 53 Promise of $2500 reduction in Healthcare premiums needs billions in Admin
cost savings by 2012: not possible
# 52 Obama omits to mention his 3 week trip to the Islamic Republic of Pakistan
until it slips out trying to out-do Clinton
# 51 Obama claims McCain wants to wage a lengthy war in Iraq: Video proves Obama’s
lying
# 50 Obama claimed he never prayed in a mosque; his campaign had to retract that
statement
# 49 Obama dishonestly used endorsements in ads to pump up his healthcare plan
# 48 Claims he never discussed politics with Pastor; rebutted by photo of Obama
with team of lobbyists led by Wright
# 47 Obama, an expert at parsing words, claimed he wasn’t familiar with the word
“Clintonian”; then changed his story
# 46 Despite reeking of cigarettes, Obama denied smoking to ABC; now admits
smoking on MSNBC
# 45 Obama said he’d meet unconditionally with Leader of Iran: now claims he
“didn’t have Ahmadinejad in mind”
# 44 Obama claims he is using public financing to avoid special interests: WSJ
nails his switcheroo
# 43 Obama’s rhetoric claims more young black men in jail than college: BoJ Stats
disprove
# 42 Claims he never said he was a proponent of single-payer universal healthcare;
Video proves he did
# 41 Obama claims remarks to industrialists were greeted with silence, shows he
can deliver tough message: video of ovation
# 40 Obamas claim you dont rip opponents & leave on roadside:he did to Alice
Palmer
# 39 Obama denies saying Indiana could be tie-breaker: he did
# 38 Obama omits that Pastor Wright led divestiture campaign from Israel
# 37 Obama claims Church not controversial; he knew it was controversial since 86
# 36 Lied about intention of taking US out of NAFTA
# 35 Obamas claim poverty growing up: both distort reality
# 34 Obama denies meeting Saddam’s Auchi; sworn Fed. witness places Obama at
undisclosed party for Auchi at Rezkos
# 33 Obama lies about not attacking Clinton over her Bosnia lies
# 32 Obama claims he passed ethics reform; ABC News shows he lied
# 31 Obama says he’s consistently opposed NAFTA; in October 2007 he supported
expansion to Peru
# 30 Obama claims he’s above dirty political tricks; Clinton proves he lies
# 29 Obama claims his “bitter” remarks were mangled; then repeats attacks on guns
religion and angry people
# 28 Obama claims never said he wouldn’t wear US flag-pin; video shows he did
# 27 Obama says he did no favors for Rezko;untrue; he lobbied for him
# 26 Changes story repeatedly re Rezko’s help in buying mansion
# 25 Obama claims he never supported a ban on handguns; he has twice
# 24 Obama claims stays at UCC as Pastor acknowledged comments were inappropriate;
Wright never made this statement
# 23 Campaign is beholden to “only the people” as unlike McCain/Clinton he does
not take lobbyist /PAC money; LIES!
# 22 Claims campaign never called Canada to say Obama not truthful re wanting
leave NAFTA; smoking gun memo proves lied
# 21 Mrs Obama admits she’s never been proud of America; Video disproves Sen.
Obama’s later claim she was misquoted
# 20 Claimed would not run for President, as he would not be qualified by 2008:
confirmed 3 times to Tim Russert in one 2006 interview
# 19 Claims famous in Il. for not letting lobbyists even buy him lunch; took from
teachers, trial lawyers, hospital admins
# 18 Claims his parents met at Selma civil rights march; Washington Post noted it
occurred 4 yrs after Obama’s birth
# 17 BO claims courageously opposed war in 2002 during US Senate campaign; He did
not announce his senate bid until 2003
# 16 Claims he passes tough Nuclear Law; NYT uncovers he took Nuclear Industry
pay-off and watered down the bill
# 15 Claimed he didn’t know Rezko was corrupt when did a real estate deal with
him; Chicago papers prove he lied
# 14 Claims does not accept money from Big Oil: Real Clear Politics proves he lied
# 13 Denies using his Hopefund PAC to influence endorsers; but the Washington Post
reviewed the record and disagreed
# 12 Claims his State Chair is not a drug company lobbyist; Time magazine cries
Bullshit
# 11 Lies about how much he received in campaign funds from Rezko; forced to
significantly increase the amount twice
# 10 Claims he did not fill out the 1996 candidate questionaire; Politico proves
he lied
# 9 Took credit for achievement of others in Chicago; resume puffing exposed by LA
Times
# 8 Claims he kept no State Senate records; now he changes his story
# 7 Denies doubling wife’s salary was due to becoming US Senator; omits within
months he earmarked $1 million for hospital
# 6 Denied meeting Saddam bagman Auchi; now admits he was at his dinner but does
not remember talking to him
# 5 Denies using his church for politics: IRS disagree
# 4 Claims he was unaware of Pastor Wrights 911 comments: NYT proves he lied
# 3 Claims his father was a goat-herd; actually he was a man of privilige
# 2 Claims not an active muslim as child; Indonesian paper proves he lied
# 1 Claims father linked to Kennedys; Washington Post proves he lied


813 posted on 02/15/2010 4:57:10 PM PST by syc1959
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To: Las Vegas Ron
No I am not being "deliberately obtuse." I am simply pointing out that what you wrote is impossible and self contradictory.

You seem to have missed the point, because in this latest post you get even worse.

"Why, what is the difference? Naturalized Citizens, Citizens are not necessarily Natural Born Citizens."

Naturalized citizens are never natural born citizens. Both can be Congressmen. Only NBCs can be President. This is not rocket science. I am puzzled why you are having such a hard time getting it.
814 posted on 02/15/2010 4:58:21 PM PST by EnderWiggins
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To: syc1959

Okay... you’ve now given up trying to even have a rational conversation on the issue of this thread.

See you tomorrow.


815 posted on 02/15/2010 4:59:11 PM PST by EnderWiggins
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To: syc1959

LOL I think you won.

A proven liar is also proven to be likely to lie again.
Funny how that fits isn’t it?


816 posted on 02/15/2010 5:02:33 PM PST by Danae (Don't like our Constitution? Try living in a country with out one.)
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To: DaveTesla

I saw that up thread, thanks, that was a good find!


817 posted on 02/15/2010 5:04:32 PM PST by Las Vegas Ron ("Because without America, there is no free world" - Canada Free Press - MSM where are you?)
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To: EnderWiggins
If by "dual loyalty" you actually mean dual citizenship, you are quite wrong. Go read the State Department's website. They're not all warm and fuzzy on the concept, but they recognize it none the less.

Actually you are wrong, the naturalization law at the time Obama was born did not allow dual citizenship, and today's law on the dual citizenship concept is not retroactive.

Case in point John McCain was actually born in Colon, Panama, the question was raised and rightfully so if he was in fact a Natural Born citizen or even a citizen at all.

The Panama Canal Zone was never US territory and always belong to the Nation of Panama.

The reason John McCain was a Natural Born Citizen and eligible to be president was that he met the legal definition crafted by the Founding Fathers that you have tried to twist into fantasy, he was that child born to US citizens beyond the seas.....

818 posted on 02/15/2010 5:07:50 PM PST by usmcobra (Your chances of dying in bed are reduced by getting out of it, but most people still die in bed)
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To: Las Vegas Ron

He is convinced that the son of Osama could be president.

Heck, maybe he IS the son of Osama, heck if I know. But what he suggests has indeed happened, and it has left us with an unconstitutional government that is not bound by the constitution, and they know it. Don’t wonder for an instant how or why this government is pushing blatantly unconstitutional legislation, and executive orders. .. not for even a fraction of a second. Don’t think for a moment that the Progressive movement, which has always been single mindedly out to remove the barrier to their plans by any means at their disposal, namely the Constitution.

With Obama, they have done it, they are out from under the restraints of the constitution and we can all see the results.

THIS has to be rectified. ASAP.


819 posted on 02/15/2010 5:08:06 PM PST by Danae (Don't like our Constitution? Try living in a country with out one.)
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To: Las Vegas Ron

Thanks! :)

Finding the Text of the 1952 act took me something like 3 hours. It was not easy to find. The easy to find versions all had Title III removed from it as if it had never existed!

That creeps me out a bit...


820 posted on 02/15/2010 5:11:18 PM PST by Danae (Don't like our Constitution? Try living in a country with out one.)
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