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I don't know but someone who would told me a long time ago that the M16 jammed a lot. And that the M-14 was better.
1 posted on 11/03/2009 4:58:22 AM PST by Saije
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To: Saije

Been through this one about a “hunderd” times, but personally I like them and their variations. Been running them for over 30 years.


2 posted on 11/03/2009 5:04:28 AM PST by TLI ( ITINERIS IMPENDEO VALHALLA)
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To: Saije; MNJohnnie
Soon it will be half a century on this issue. What gives?


3 posted on 11/03/2009 5:05:15 AM PST by nathanbedford ("Attack, repeat, attack!" Bull Halsey)
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To: Saije

I’m not blaming you, but this same topic has been written ad nauseum this year by numerous authors and numerous titles. What is behind all this knocking of the M16?


4 posted on 11/03/2009 5:05:25 AM PST by caver (Obama's first goals: allow more killing of innocents and allow the killers of innocents to go free.)
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To: Saije

“I don’t know but someone who would told me a long time ago that the M16 jammed a lot. And that the M-14 was better.”

The original M16 did. The M14 fails too (extractors popping out, for instance). All machines fail. Even the vaunted AK.


5 posted on 11/03/2009 5:06:32 AM PST by Favor Center (Targets up! Hold hard and favor center!)
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To: Saije; Bender2

The M-14 was better for the 1960s/post Nuclear battlefield. The 7.62mm ( is too powerfull for CQB.

This is more blame Bush and trying to excuse 0bama for a lack of policy in Afghanistan.

There is nothing wrong with the M-16. What is the main battle weapon of the israeli Army? Nuff said.


6 posted on 11/03/2009 5:10:09 AM PST by Perdogg (Sarah Palin-Jim DeMint 2012 - Liz Cheney for Sec of State - Duncan Hunter SecDef)
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To: Saije

A while back, I had the Springfield Armory M-1A, which is the civilian version of the M-14. It’s a great gun and I’ll probably buy another with a match barrel and composite stock someday. My military friends all liked it but it’s not light and the ammo can get pretty heavy, too.

My young Marine friends haven’t had problems with jamming but they keep their firearms (they also have AR sporter rifles) pristine. However, the M-16/AR-15 platform is getting long in the tooth. Barrett and Heckler & Koch have some new alternatives, similar to the existing platform, the US military is testing. I think both are chambered in 6.8MM (something in between the current 5.56MM and the M-14’s 7.62MM).


8 posted on 11/03/2009 5:11:24 AM PST by 12Gauge687 (Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice)
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To: Saije
"....M16 jammed a lot. And that the M-14 was better."

M-16 = rounds have less punch, but one can carry more ammo.
M-14 = more powerfull rounds, but can't carry as many.

9 posted on 11/03/2009 5:13:16 AM PST by Psalm 73 ("Gentlemen, you can't fight in here - this is the War Room".)
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To: Saije

The M-16 is a fine piece of machinery, as such it needs care to keep it going. The Garrand was also a fine piece, if it could have lost some weight through modification (new alloys, fiber stock)it would still be a fine piece. All weapons have initial flaws that have to be worked out after fielding. The M-16 is probably as reliable as the most reliable weapon out there. It also has better accuracy than most.


12 posted on 11/03/2009 5:17:40 AM PST by Bringbackthedraft (No 3rd Parties, the real winner will be the loser. A 3 party election needs a run off.)
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To: Saije
No gun works well in a sandbox. I carried the first model M16 on a bulldozer in Viet Nam and it took care to keep it clean. I had an AR15 jam but it was my own handloadsl I got the problem solved.

Even the earliest M16 worked better than our politicians.

15 posted on 11/03/2009 5:19:57 AM PST by mountainlion (concerned conservative.)
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To: Saije
While the M4 system and the M16 have their drawbacks, as all weapons of this nature do, the system works if it is maintained correctly.

Anything mechanical is prone to failure at some given point.

I have had the opportunity of firing most of the older and newer versions of the M16/M4 family, as well as some of the newer technologies available. There are some good ones out there, SCAR, SiG, even the new Ruger. But none of these are battlefield tested. Piston systems, similar to the AK also have problems aside from the 'cleaner' advantage.

The main issue with any of these is caliber.

The 5.56x45 is an excellent round but lacks a lot downrange. The 6.8 SPC is exceptional for longer range accuracy and energy, as is being needed in Afghanistan, where the heavier M14 in 7.62x51 is making another comeback as a battlefield weapon.

But what it all really comes down to, in it's simplest form, is the M4 is light, handy, maneuverable, accurate within it's limits. And when you are carrying around, body armor, pack(40 lbs), ammo, scope, radio, etc, it makes a difference.

17 posted on 11/03/2009 5:23:20 AM PST by Pistolshot (Brevity: Saying a lot, while saying very little.)
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To: Saije
I never fired the M-14, but have 22 years experience with the M-16 and was not impressed. I think it's underpowered and not reliable enough to depend on when your life depends on it working correctly.

We had problems with fte any time the weapon got hot and had a lot of problems during Desert Shield when we first arrived in the middle east. The weapons had been stored with a light coating of oil and the fine sand combined with the oil and made the rifle a single shot. Guys who weren't on the front lines didn't find out that their rifle was a paperweight until they got into a firefight.

The 5.56 uses a slow rate of rifling to keep the bullet barely stable during flight. The slow rotation allows the bullet to tumble when it strikes soft tissue and cause more damage. The slow rotation and ultra velocity combine to cause the bullets to fragment or tumble if they hit anything during travel.

The light bullet doesn't always do the job, especially at long ranges. The only real firefight that I was in during Desert Storm took place at around a quarter of a mile. We found blood after the battle indicating that we had scored hits, but all of the bad guys were able to continue fighting and leave under their own power. I think that a larger projectile would have improved our odds. During that battle, two of the seven weapons jammed and one couldn't be cleared until after the fighting was over. You really don't want to resort to a 9mm pistol when the enemy is a quarter mile away.

19 posted on 11/03/2009 5:27:37 AM PST by mbynack (Retired USAF SMSgt)
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To: Saije

I had one AR-15 that jammed sometimes, and broke TWICE. And two AK-47’s that never broke OR jammed!


20 posted on 11/03/2009 5:27:38 AM PST by 2harddrive
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To: Saije

I heard the same thing. One Marine I knew always managed to keep an M-14 around even when the brass threw temper tantrums and tried to force him to carry the M-16.

I don’t know how he got away with it.


22 posted on 11/03/2009 5:28:45 AM PST by Ronin (Nemo me impune lacesset)
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To: Saije

Bump.


25 posted on 11/03/2009 5:33:23 AM PST by dangerdoc
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To: Saije

The M16 is a fine rifle when maintained. However, the design is almost 50 years old. Other nations around the world are creating new designs and better designs while we redress the same platform over and over and over again.

Sadly, we won’t see any real new effective systems here in the US for a long long time. Thanks to all the short sighted elected officials that killed the innovative firearms industry in this nation.


26 posted on 11/03/2009 5:34:10 AM PST by BCR #226 (07/02 SOT www.extremefirepower.com...The BS stops when the hammer drops.)
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To: Saije

If you take care of it, it will take care of you.


29 posted on 11/03/2009 5:40:32 AM PST by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: Saije

Fussy and punchless and less than ideal for war?

Got my vote.


30 posted on 11/03/2009 5:43:32 AM PST by flowerplough ( Pennsylvania today - New New Jersey meets North West Virginia.)
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To: Saije
From the Humorous Comparison of an AK47, an AR15 and a Mosin Nagant webpage.

Stuff you know if you have an AK-47:
It works though you have never cleaned it. Ever.

Stuff you know if you have an AR:
You have $9 per ounce special non-detergent synthetic teflon infused oil for cleaning.

Stuff you know if you have a Mosin Nagant:
It was last cleaned in Berlin in 1945.

Stuff you know if you have an AK-47:
You can put a .30" hole through 12" of oak, if you can hit it.

Stuff you know if you have an AR:
You can put one hole in a paper target at 100m with 30 rounds.

Stuff you know if you have a Mosin Nagant:
You can knock down everyone else's target just from the shock wave of your bullet going downrange.

34 posted on 11/03/2009 5:52:52 AM PST by Pilsner
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To: Saije
Yawn
35 posted on 11/03/2009 5:53:40 AM PST by Buffalo Head (Illigitimi non carborundum)
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To: Saije

With good smokeless ammunition the M16 works great but if the ammo is cheap and the powder is not smokeless the weapon becomes damn near useless.You pretty much have to fieldstrip that weapon and get rid of the soot and carbon deposits.Because if you just add oil to it that soot and carbon become stickey as hell and the weapon will refuse to function.


39 posted on 11/03/2009 6:08:17 AM PST by puppypusher (The world is going to the Dogs.)
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