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To: BroJoeK; betty boop
As for Jefferson, perhaps nothing illustrates his attitude toward Christianity better than the "Jefferson Bible," where he literally took a knife, cut out and pasted up those portions of the Bible he found agreeable, while discarding all the rest!

With Jefferson it is always particularly reckless to assign his beliefs to one act or one thing written. His intellect was much too powerful to be confined to such a small box.

In a letter directed to Doctor Benjamin Rush, and dated April 21, 1803, he specifically embraces the teachings of Christ and announces himself a Christian (“I am a Christian”). To be sure, Jefferson was very much an unconventional Christian in that he eschewed most of the formalism of any particular Christian sect and concentrated his thoughts on the actual words of Christ. His views were rather, “the result of a life of inquiry and reflection, and very different from that anti-Christian system imputed to me by those who know nothing of my opinions.” It is as though Jefferson is speaking as much to this day as to 1803. The experience of having views imputed to him that were very different from what he held by people who knew nothing of his real opinions, were no different then than today.

. . . . . Thomas Jefferson, letter to Doctor Benjamin Rush, April 21, 1803. The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, in 19 volumes, Memorial Edition, edited by Albert Ellery Burgh, Vol 10, pg 379

Jefferson was not an atheist; he worshiped the Christian God (to Adams: “. . . the God whom you and I acknowledge and adore”). This is quite a blow to those who slander Jefferson as ‘Godless’ (i e. the Baptists) because his Christian doctrine was not the same as theirs, and therefore not entirely to their liking. It is equally a blow to those who are today eager to declare him either Atheist or Deist in an effort to put distance between the Judeo-Christian tradition and the Anglo-American tradition of constitutional government. They will just have to bear up under this disappointment as best they can, for there is worse to come.

In a letter to John Adams, dated April 11, 1823, Jefferson not only makes clear his faith in Christianity, but also in Creationism. Moreover, he argues ID (Intelligent Design). He makes clear, beyond any dispute, both his support of Christianity and of Creationism: “The argument which they [the disciples of Ocellus, Timaeus, Spinosa, Diderot and D'Holbach] rest on as triumphant and unanswerable is, that in every hypothesis of cosmogony, you must admit an eternal pre-existence of something; and according to the rule of sound philosophy, you are never to employ two principles to solve a difficulty when one will suffice. They say then, that it is more simple to believe at once in the eternal pre-existence of the world, as it is now going on, and may forever go on by the principle of reproduction which we see and witness, than to believe in the eternal pre-existence of an ulterior cause, or Creator of the world, a Being whom we see not and know not, of whose form, substance and mode, or place of existence, or of action, no sense informs us, no power of the mind enables us to delineate or comprehend.”

[By 141 years Jefferson anticipates the detection of the cosmic microwave background radiation signaling the beginning of the universe. Amazing!]

He continues: “On the contrary, I hold, (without appeal to revelation) that when we take a view of the universe, in its parts, general or particular, it is impossible for the human mind not to perceive and feel a conviction of design, consummate skill, and indefinite power in every atom of its composition. . The movements of the heavenly bodies, so exactly held in their course by the balance of centrifugal and centripetal forces; the structure of our earth itself, with its distribution of lands, waters and atmosphere; animal and vegetable bodies, examined in all their minutest particles; insects, mere atoms of life, yet as perfectly organized as man or mammoth; the mineral substances, their generation and uses; it is impossible, I say, for the human mind not to believe, that there is in all this, design, cause and effect, up to an ultimate cause, a Fabricator of all things from matter and motion, their Preserver and Regulator while permitted to exist in their present forms, and their regeneration into new and other forms.”

. . . . . Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823, The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, in 19 volumes, Memorial Edition, edited by Albert Ellery Burgh, Vol 15, pg 425

A letter dated November 2, 1822 directed to Dr. Thomas Cooper, explodes more common myths that have circulated about Jefferson when he relates the sharing of a courthouse by various Christian sects, as a common temple of worship. What is surprising is not that different Christian sects proved to be willing to share in common worship, taking turns in leading the services, but that their place of common worship was the very seat of local government itself, the court-house, and that this event was reported, with equanimity, by ole’ Mr. ‘wall of separation’ himself. Jefferson then goes on to confound us further by relating how he and his fellow Visitors (directors) of the University of Virginia, including former presidents James Madison and James Monroe, provided space on the university grounds and the sharing of certain facilities for formal religious instruction by various Christian sects. Not exactly the attitude which we have been lead to believe is to be expected of Mr. Jefferson (nor of Mr. Madison)

. . . . . Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, November 2, 1822, The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, in 19 volumes, Memorial Edition, edited by Albert Ellery Burgh, Vol 15, pg 403

So, in the space of but three letters Thomas Jefferson explodes numerous myths about his attitudes on Christianity and church/state relations. And, there are nineteen volumes of letters, papers and documents in Mr. Burgh’s magnificent work!

1,567 posted on 01/31/2009 8:22:38 PM PST by YHAOS
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To: YHAOS
Jefferson: "“On the contrary, I hold, (without appeal to revelation) that when we take a view of the universe, in its parts, general or particular, it is impossible for the human mind not to perceive and feel a conviction of design, consummate skill, and indefinite power in every atom of its composition. .

"The movements of the heavenly bodies, so exactly held in their course by the balance of centrifugal and centripetal forces; the structure of our earth itself, with its distribution of lands, waters and atmosphere; animal and vegetable bodies, examined in all their minutest particles; insects, mere atoms of life, yet as perfectly organized as man or mammoth; the mineral substances, their generation and uses; it is impossible, I say, for the human mind not to believe, that there is in all this, design, cause and effect, up to an ultimate cause, a Fabricator of all things from matter and motion, their Preserver and Regulator while permitted to exist in their present forms, and their regeneration into new and other forms.”

First of all, Jefferson's views here are the same as mine. But more important, they are the same as ancient philosophers going back to Aristotle and before. It is the philosophical principle of the First Cause.

But this discussion was always considered part of the higher philosophies -- or metaphysics = beyond physics. It was never part of mere "natural philosophy" which today we call science.

And that is the crux of the argument I've been making here over these many, many posts.

1,581 posted on 02/01/2009 7:53:31 AM PST by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
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To: YHAOS; BroJoeK
Thank you ever so much, YHAOS, for this excellent essay/post!

I have a slender little volume of TJ's writings. But Burgh looks like the "mother lode!" Wow. In 19 volumes, no less! I hope my local library has it on their shelves.

Thanks so much, YHAOS!

1,584 posted on 02/01/2009 11:49:05 AM PST by betty boop
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