Obamaunism 101: The Stanley Ann and Madelyn Dunham factor

[Fred Nerks]

Looks like the photographs must have been taken before Christmas 1960. If they ‘married’ three or four months after she became pregnant and obama was born in early August, the pregnancy must have commenced in November. So...I would say yes, she was.

Tells us nothing about where obama was born, how-ever, or who the father really was...does it?

[BP2]

Would you concur with this timeline?

June 1960 — Ann moves to Hawaii with Parents (exact date unknown)
Sept 1960 — Ann starts classes at U of Hawaii (Sept. 26, 1960)
Oct 1960 — Ann becomes pregnant by Barack Sr.
Feb 1961 — Ann marries Obama Sr (Feb. 2, 1961) ANN'S EXACT AGE: 18 years, 2 months, 5 days *
Aug 1961 — Ann reportedly gives birth to Obama Jr on Aug. 4, 1961 ANN'S EXACT AGE: 18 years, 8 months, 7 days *
Aug 1961 — Ann is sighted by Susan Blake in late-Aug, with photographic evidence on Mercer Island (Obama Jr reportedly 3 weeks old)
Fall 1961 — Ann enrolls for classes at University of Washington through Fall 1962 (see transcripts below)
Fall 1962 — Ann is sighted by Barbara Cannon Rusk in June-Sept 1962 “I had moved to Utah for a while after high school, and I came back to Seattle in the summer of 1962. I remember visiting the World's Fair, and then stopping by Stanley Ann's apartment on Capitol Hill. It was a small apartment, upstairs. It was after June, and could have been as late as September, 1962. I visited her for half a day or so. It was after the end of the spring quarter classes, and she wasn't in classes, and didn't have a job. I recall her being melancholy at the time. I had a sense that something wasn't right in her.” NOTE: The World’s Fair ended October 21, 1962 so Ann was still in Seattle at the end of October.
Dec 1962 — Approximate date Ann and baby Obama leave Seattle to join Ann's parents back in Hawaii for Ann to resume classes at the University of Hawaii in Spring 1963

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2008/10/how-could-stanl.html
“The University of Hawaii at Manoa is only able to provide the following information for Stanley Ann Dunham: (Dates of attendance):
Fall 1960 (First day of instruction 9/26/1960)
Spring 1963 - Summer 1966

“Ms. Stanley Ann Dunham was enrolled at the University of Washington for”:
Autumn 1961
Winter 1962
Spring 1962

* Stanley Ann Dunham was born November 29, 1942.

SO.... you can imagine my amazement when I look at Ann and Barack SR’s 1964 Divorce (http://d.scribd.com/docs/2brssq476ulu82vhoizw.pdf), on Pg 2, Section I, and see that Ann seems to FALSELY attest on Jan. 20, 1964 that she “is now and for more than TWO years past has been a resident of Honolulu, City and County of Honolulu, State of Hawaii.”

These are the types of discrepancies throughout her life reflected in prima facie evidence (and this is ONE of many) that show a motive to commit fraud. A good attorney could use such instances to file for a subpoena to gain access to "other" records (like birth records, for example) under the suspicion that affidavits by that same person have a high likelihood to have been falsely entered into the Hawaiian court system...

Although a criminal case, see United States v. Cunningham for more on this...

[Aurorales]

Thanks for the Ping LucyT.

I keep forgetting about this thread and all the info.
It is like a jigsaw puzzle. I’m fitting the pieces into each other, but the new pieces make the old parts not fit together anymore.
Doing my best to keep up. The pings are appreciated.

[mojitojoe]

This is the weirdest story ever. None of it makes much sense to me. Why would she leave Hawaii and head to WA with a newborn baby and without her new husband? That makes no sense or am I missing something here? It makes a lot more sense to me that she didn't give birth in Hawaii.
There must be some missing pieces to the puzzle. If she and Sr. went to Kenya and she had Jr. there, why wouldn't he have been with her in WA when they returned. When was the last know date that she was in Hawaii prior to the birth of Jr. or do we not know that? Did they break up right after the birth so she took off to WA? I'm totally confused, nothing adds up.
This has nothing to do with the bc but another thing that is extremely odd to me is that there isn't a SINGLE picture of Jr. with parents or grandparents when he was a baby. NONE. Also there isn't a single picture of him with a girl EVER except Michelle. He is always with guys. All these guys have come forth and talked about knowing him but no ex girlfriends? His friends never speak of him dating any girls. His entire life is this strange mystery that makes no sense.

[little jeremiah]

Artificially constructed and hidden life. How can anyone carry on like that.

[autumnraine]

If she lived in Seattle as Stanley Obama, is the possibility of a Canadian birth as some have suggested even more likely? Why would she go from Seattle to Hawaii to have a baby and come back to Seattle alone?

Does anyone know when inexpensive (or universal-free) health care came to Canada?

[maggief]

“because your father can’t stay in one spot too long”

That account is another one I question. The move seemed to be abrupt and against Stanley Ann’s wishes. Relocating may have been more about changing the scenery for Stanley Ann than her father.

[maggief]

“Aug 1961 — Ann is sighted by Susan Blake in late-Aug, with photographic evidence on Mercer Island (Obama Jr reportedly 3 weeks old)”

Is this photo available?

[maggief]

I take her account, and others, with a grain of salt. I almost completely ignore 0’s memoir.

[BP2]

I recall seeing either a photo or movie of Ann and baby in Seattle during that visit. That said, I cannot find that at the moment...

Does anyone else have that archived?

[BP2]

Do we have a good accounting of a FIRM date as to when the Dunhams would have arrived to Hawaii in 1960?

- Madelyn, the mother, reportedly started working at a bank as an escrow officer
- Stanley, the father, I believe became a manager of a furniture store
- Ann started classes at Univ of Hawaii on Sept. 26, 1960
- Obama SR was a foreign national of what would become Kenya on Dec 11, 1963. Some say Obama SR was forced to marry an "expecting" Ann because her father threatened to cause problems and have Obama Sr's visa revoked -- a shotgun wedding, of sorts

Follow-up questions:
- What would happen to Ann's STATE residency status if she left Hawaii before being in place for one year?
- How would that have been affected, if at all, by marrying a UK subject, when Ann and Obama Sr got hitched reportedly on Feb. 2, 1961 (ANN'S EXACT AGE: 18 years, 2 months, 5 days -- less than age 19 for transfer of citizenship at the time, and less than age 21 for other rights and privileges at the time)?

Here's part of the reason I'm asking:

[§338-17.8] Certificates for children born out of State.
(a) Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult or minor, provided that proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child. (emphasis added)

[patriot08]

Does anyone have any info on a Bernice Payne, a person who lived next door to Anna Obama in Seattle while O was a baby? Need info for research for a friend.

[patriot08]

Obama is a dead ringer for Malcolm X

[Iowan]

I will Ping Fred Nerks regarding photo.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2148751/posts?page=350#350
Post #350

Fred Nerks, would you possibly have this photo?

[LucyT]

To All, need help. Can anyone provide answers to these questions:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2148751/posts?page=350#350

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2148751/posts?page=351#351

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2148751/posts?page=352#352

[maggief]

ptbor,

Do you have the Madelyn Payne genealogy saved? Is there a Bernice in the background? (See also post #309)

Found this ... related???

http://genforum.genealogy.com/wa/king/

Bernice E.Payne, b. 1890 Colorado - (name redacted)

Would someone please do a marriage look-up for me. Bernice is found on the 1910 King Co.,Washington census. She is a boarder, age 18, working as a waitress. She must have married after 1910, probably in King County, Wa. I will be happy to pay for this service. (email address redacted)

* Re: Bernice E.Payne, b. 1890 Colorado - (name redacted) 8/03/07

* Re: Bernice E.Payne, b. 1890 Colorado - (name redacted)

Also need to know when Mary Ava Payne ,b.1903 King Co., Washington married. She is found on the 1920 King Co.,Wash. census as age 16 b. Washington. Her parents are James P. Payne and Mary J. Payne. If you have any knowlege of this family, please contact me. (email address redacted)

[BP2]

Thanks, Patriot.

I’m just gobsmacked at the fact that a woman with the last name of Payne, Ann’s mom’s maiden name, lived next door to Ann and baby Obama in 1961-1962 in Seattle ...

Yeah, I know I should be asking you to pass the tin-foil, but it just seems one heck of a coincidence given what we’ve seen from this family. My experience with people who create aliases and “nicknames” for themselves — they acquire that habit from their families, particularly their parents.

For Ann, the known names or aliases:
- Stanley Ann Dunham (maiden)
- Anna Dunham (her friends called her Anna)
- Anna Obama (after getting hitched to Obama Sr, in Washington phonebooks)
- Stanley Ann D. Obama (1964 Divorce)
- Ann Soetoro (in several quotes in that timeframe)
- Stanley Ann Soetoro (1980 Divorce)
- Ann Dunham Sotoro (Dissertation)
- S. Ann Dunham (Dissertation)
- ... and a few others I’m sure I’m forgetting ...

Obama Jr has just about as many aliases and nicknames, with variants of Barack Obama, Barry Soetoro, Barry Obama, etc, as well...

It’s reasonable to assume Madelyn Lee Payne, or “Toots”, did the same as well... perhaps even Beatrice Payne...

[FlashBack]

Wow...Thanks for the pings!

[nufsed]

We need a factual bio of this guy to balance all the lap dog ones that he wrote and others passed along.

[Calpernia]

Are you thinking of the Susan Blake interview?