Posted on 12/02/2008 6:57:32 AM PST by prplhze2000
Hi NT.
You have to have the backgound on the Civil War threads around here. Much like threads on religion and threads on Evolution these threads have a history of on-going adherents to various narrow aspects of the topic under discussion.
Many of these posters with the more heated interchanges have been having these same interchanges for close to ten years.
Where in current politcal event discussion there is a level of at least some civility, on these threads it is a battlefield of the fight that never ended. Shelby Foote notes a great fact in explaining this by citing that in Vicksburg, Mississippi the Fourth of July was not celebrated on a civic level until 1961. Until that is understood, no understanding of a FR Civil War thread is possible
And if you had any knowledge of the history of the time then you would also know that the North tried Lincoln's proposal to "Let them up easy" and in return the South did everything they could to undermine the 13th Amemdent and return their recently freed chattel to a condition as closely resembling slavery as possible. Race riots in Memphis and New Orleans, intimidation by organizations like the Klan. It wasn't until 1867, when the Southern contempt for the rule of law had been made clear yet again, that Reconstruction was imposed. So in Reconstruction, as in the death and destruction resulting from the rebellion itself, all the suffering the South went through was again self inflicted.
While I'll admit that there's frequently a lot of contentiousness on these threads, there are several Lost Causers for whom I have a great deal of respect. Someone a couple of years ago compared these threads to a graduate seminar on the war and they were right. We've gotten into all sorts of subjects, from who paid for dredging operations in Charleston harbor in the 1830s to the tonnage of shipping out of New Orleans and the mechanization of cotton harvesting.
But as far as "leading to understanding," well, at some point we're going to have to agree to disagree. I understand the southern position--state vs, federal, agrarian vs. industrial and so on--and I even have some sympathy for it in the abstract. But I'm never going to be a "South was right and Lincoln was worse than Stalin" people. And it's too much to expect us to settle an argument that's been raging pretty much since Appomattox. Not when arguing it is so entertaining.
Of course they are.
And were it not for the conservative South of whom you have nothing but compempt for, this country would be left of France, and the Socialist Capital of the World.
It's not the South I have contempt for, though I will point out that you Southerners are late to the party and didn't even become Republicans until you found out that you could join the party and force it to keep your big government, big spending ways. No, the people I have contempt for are you particular brand Southron crybabies who bitch and moan and sob over what happened 140 years ago and who insist on blaming everyone but themselves for what happened.
Speaking of presidents and where they come from. Out of curiosity what state do you hail from?
funny you say that as many southerners I know have contempt of northerners who have no knowledge of history, who come down south telling southerners they are this and that and then telling them to just get over it and deal with it.
Still at least you have no plans to come down here do you.
Like my Boston Yankee wife says.
It must be easy though thinking about it when your land was never taken away, ancestors raped, robbed , carpetbaggers stealing land, was not allowed to vote for 10 years, killed for singing certain sings, Yankees telling southerners how to live etc and then telling those who did have it done to their family to get over it.
I believe a poster on here had ancestors who had their land taken away too
Never going to happen, southerners are a proud bunch and will not forget their family or what they fought for.
They are also very stubborn and will not heed to a northern liberal.
My wife says she is ashamed that she was never taught the proper history at school, ashamed that some northerners have their head up their arse over this and that she wished she was born down here instead of liberal high tax MA.
She has spoken to many people who had their ancestors in the war and she feel bad how they were treated.
Seems like Y'ALL (or youse guys) have done that for us. We'll see how YOUR yankee does. I think FDR and Wilson must have been your kind of guys?
Born in Illinois, live in Kansas.
Still at least you have no plans to come down here do you.
No, I don't.
It must be easy though thinking about it when your land was never taken away, ancestors raped, robbed , carpetbaggers stealing land, was not allowed to vote for 10 years, killed for singing certain sings, Yankees telling southerners how to live etc and then telling those who did have it done to their family to get over it. I believe a poster on here had ancestors who had their land taken away too Never going to happen, southerners are a proud bunch and will not forget their family or what they fought for.
And again, who's fault is that?
My wife says she is ashamed that she was never taught the proper history at school, ashamed that some northerners have their head up their arse over this and that she wished she was born down here instead of liberal high tax MA.
And I'm sure she's been well indoctrinated in Southron mythology.
She has spoken to many people who had their ancestors in the war and she feel bad how they were treated.
Sorry, but I don't.
Nope. Ronald Reagan. A good Northerner.
each to their own and at the minute we can still have different views but we;ll see how obama runs his presidency.
The Confederate government had imposed a cotton tax, so a lot of those bales had already been "grabbed" by the rebel government. The Davis regime also built and controled a lot of factories. So there would have been some warrant for the federal government taking over properties that were used in the war against it. Does anyone know whether there's anything more in this charge or not?
Same goes for the kalifornicators and their non starting ideas!
Silence means consensus
What a coincidence. I get the same reaction when I read your posts.
You have to keep convincing yourself of that fallacy in order to keep your fantasy that the Union was the clean and pure ones, without sin. The Confederacy did nothing more than assert the rights the Founding Fathers believed this country had in 1776.
And what rights were those?
The only difference being Lincoln was more a butcher than King George.
You keep trying to convince yourself of that fallacy.
Hey, Pea. What's up?
If you knew a little history, you would know that before the first cannon shot in Charleston (which by the way was from the deck of a Union warship...
I know a lot of history, and if you really want to get down to it the first shots were from the batteries in Charleston and directed at the Start of the West and the Rhoda Shannon. But I don't suppose either of those fit in your 'little' history, do they?
...the nice people of Charleston had sent fresh vegetables, meats, fish, and fruits to the Union occupiers for a full four months.....all the while giving free travel to the spouses of the Union men who wanted to go back north.
In the first place, the soldiers weren't occupiers since they were federal soldiers manning a federal fort. In the second, those nice people in Charleston cut off the supplies several days before they tried to blow the fort off the face of the earth. Another fact that didn't make it into your 'little' history.
You would also leave out the fact that the Union troops received offers almost daily to peacefully evacuate Ft. Sumter.
Yeah, but there was no reason for them to leave. It was their post, they were stationed there, they had every right to be there.
Mr. Lincoln was warned by practically everyone in the North, that he would start a war by interfering in Charleston.
By resupplying the garrison at Sumter rather than have them starved into submission, you mean.
Despite the warnings and pleadings, he sent ships to Charleston to do just that.
The ever popular Southron whine, vintage 1861 - "That mean ol' Lincoln tricked us into firing."
...if you would read your history, you would find that the war was initiated when Lincoln engaged in the first act of war.
I read a lot of history as I said, Pea. But I'm not into Southron mythology so I'm not sure what act of war you're referring to.
And by the way, it sounds as if you have been dating that other "know-nothing", Ken Burns. Tell him I said hello.
I'll be sure to ask him if he's over that social disease you gave him yet.
As I've said many times before, the statement that the winners write the histories and the losers write the myths is never more true then when dealing with the Civil War. As your posts demonstrate.
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