FR & McCain: What Happened? (Vanity)

August is rolling over into September and, before we know it, election day will be upon us. Perhaps it is merely my impression, but most here on FR seem to have settled down with the idea of John McCain both as the Republican nominee (which he is certain to be, regardless) and, even, as President of the United States. The initial candidate debate has all but faded and virtually all here have gelled back into the Republican camp instead of the "Republicans for Romney", "Republicans for Giuliani", "Republicans for Hunter", etc. ad nauseum, ad infinitum. No doubt, this is precisely what the party dons are happy to see: lively debate during the primaries and then the base falls lockstep in line with the leadership in their infinite wisdom.

And it makes me feel like I am in the Twilight Zone. Compare the tenor of the threads, between McCain's maverick moments during Bush's presidency, especially the "Gang of 14" incident, and now. Does anyone remember the hate for "The Maverick"? The "Traitor"? Two years ago, how many here would have voted for McCain. The reason for the change, most would say, is political pragmatism. We gotta stop Obama. How many here would pick Gerald Ford over Ronald Reagan today? Not many, I should think. Yet, when Carter won the general election, we, as a nation, got Reagan after Carter managed to spend four years highlighting everything that is wrong with liberalism. It is easy to say that we will take McCain so that we will not have Obama. It is giving up the long term good to maybe (I stress maybe; the winner of this contest will be far from certain) prevent a present evil. A lesser evil. That is precious little consolation.

As soon as that line is crossed, there will be no chance left of the Republican party going back. They know that the faithful will plod along, voting Republican though the Republican party has long since turned its back on their principles.

I will vote third party--not because I think that the candidate will win (numerically, I think it is all but impossible, though God works miracles in his own time). Nor because I think the candidate is ideal (if that were the standard, not a single human being could be elected to any office), but because I will not cross this line in the sand.

I guess this is the 1992-1996-2006 local experts thread

Before the election they complained

After the election they complained and blamed others

They are upset their personal primary pick that never broke 1%-5% (Joe Biden got about 1% or so) did not get the nomination and will whine and moan and vote for their version of Ross Perot and say everyone will revolt and vote for some imaginary Perfect Conservative after Obama, Pelosi, Reid have majorities to push through Socialism and 3 more radical SCOTUS Justices

No wonder they are armchair local political geniuses

As Patton said in WWII:

“At ease men - we’re going to wait about four years to go save the 1001st Airborne!”

I find it admirable that many conservatives are sticking to their principles and continue to oppose John McCain; even if that means the end result will be a muslim socialist President who will set this country on an irreversible path to the end of the American idea. Please don’t take this as an insult, it’s just a fact. However, I don’t hear any viable plans or ideas as you asked of me from these principled conservatives. Until they do, I don’t particularly care for what they have to say.

Oh, you don't know what the plan is? Well, here's the plan. In between elections, you hide in your basement and sit on your hands and wait until the very last moment. Once the nominee is decided, you bitch incessantly about how he's not the truest of the true, that you've been screwed, and how America's going in the tank.

You weren't expecting an actual well-thought-out long-term plan of action, were you?

You see, I left a country that is on a path to self destruction from the very policies I know for 100% Obama stands for. I guess I’m playing the odds that a McCain presidency won’t go that far.

I think many Americans have been paying attention to what's been happening all over Europe, and they see that there are factions here in the US who want to bring the "joy" to America as well. No-bama for me, thanks, and I won't help him get elected. Plus, I'm really liking what I see of Governor Palin - she's definitely not the same old tired Northeastern liberal Republican they usually throw out there. This is a step in the right direction - a small one, but a step nonetheless.

Ah, the magical third party. Everyone likes the idea of a third party until they see a third party platform. Seems third party advocates all think the third party will agree with them on nearly all issues. Sadly, it doesn't work that way.

The Green Party is a socialist third party. Reform party is a populist third party. The Libertarian Party is a, well, anarchist party. These folks do not agree on much of anything, yet they are all third parties. Once one puts out a firm platform or philosophy, we find the areas of disagreement, things we can't support.

Remember back years ago when Colin Powell was choosing a party? America loved Powell. People were elated when he chose the GOP. Surely, we thought, this intelligent military man would agree with us. Then he started talking, and everyone learned that Colin Powell was against much of what any one of us believed.

In sports, coaches sometimes say that you have to take what the defense gives you. You can't score a touchdown every play, so you do what you can to move the ball forward when you can and minimize your losses. There will be another play. And there will be another election.

That's how I feel about this election and third parties. You see a five-deep defense, and instead of running the ball, you decide to throw deep anyway, knowing that the pass will be incomplete. But you can say “We were just trying to score.” Fine, but you give the ball to the opposition and set them up to succeed. I'll take the five yard run that is available and hold onto the football and see what is available on the next play. In this case, that means voting for McCain.

If a coach throws deep on every play, he will lose every game 100-0 and will soon be out of a job.

I think the “make a statement” voters are not thinking strategically. I think the football metaphor is appropriate. It is time to think about field position. We can give the opposition the ball at our five yard line, or keep the ball in our hands at midfield. The choice is obvious in that context.

And if you don't like the football analogy, think about a military battlefield, which doesn't have a clock. Sometimes you just hold your ground until reinforcements arrive or the situation on the ground changes. Sometimes you retreat to a defensible position. Either way, you have to think strategically, not tactically.

People who voted for a third party candidate instead of a candidate with a chance to win gave us Clinton (Perot voters who would have likely supported Bush 1) and Bush 2 (Nader voters who could have voted for Gore). Had those voters supported the major candidate that was more closely aligned with their beliefs, the last two decades would have been far different. They hurt their own cause and ended up with a government that was further away from their expressed preferences.

I ask you now, how much impact did their “statement votes” for the third party have on the country now? Did Perot move us toward populism? Did Nader move the dems more toward socialism? No, not really. Names and ideas on the scrapheap of history. And a 1% or less vote will have even less effect.

I'm going to play field position on this one. I'm going to vote for McCain because I know that if he wins, the country will be far less socialist than if Obama wins. I recognize the reality that one of those two will win. I'll choose less liberal over more liberal every time. Denying that reality is folly.

I might only agree with McCain 60% of the time, but I agree with Obama on nearly nothing. After an Obama presidency, I see no way that my kids can grow up in a conservative, free country. With McCain, the mountain that will need to be climbed after his presidency is much much lower.

So vote how you want, for whatever reasons you have. But I think it is strategically foolish - yes, foolish - to vote for anyone but McCain at this point. I'd rather have the ball at midfield in four years than have the opposition holding the ball at my five yardline, poised to completely destroy my freedom.

I've been wanting to say this for a while. Thanks for posting a thread where I could.

I agree that Sara Palin was a stroke of genius.

I am from Alaska and know the inside political stagnation the state has been plagued with for decades, by Republican Corruption (Murkowski, Stevens, the road and bridge to nowhere .) They lined their bank accounts and took favors and pay-offs. Also, Alaskans suffered the results of an extremely Liberal Governor. (Knowles)

Sara Palin came in and turned it upside down and straightened it all out in just a few short months. She was absolutely brilliant!

As the mayor of Wasilla, (That town of only 9,000 you hear about.) she reduced property taxes by 60% and still balanced the budget. The Democrats tried a recall vote because they were so upset at her for making fools out of them. Of course, the residents of Wasilla refused.

Sara Palin is a rare talent in this political age. Washington will do all it can to ruin her, but I sincerely hope she does not let it get her down. And, knowing her, she will be even more inspired due to her Alaskan upbringing and natural spirit.

She truly is our best hope for the future and every effort to give her the experience she needs is vital. My vote goes for Palin. McCain is merely her introductor and will step down in 2012 like he promised he would.

By all means, vote McCain. The benefits are just what the GOP needed so desperately.

You can keep attempting to win the Battle of Hamburger Hill Game over and over and over

I’ll hop over those hills and islands and drop a few nukes on the target and see how Cokehead ‘08 reacts and then I’ll turn up the heat some more

Winning by losing is a fantasy

Ronald Reagan said he’d take 80% (or so?) and move on to the next crisis

Bill Clinton said much the same words last week

Winning takes numbers

Numbers require motivating a majority of voters with credible achieveable agendas

You fail on numbers and motivation and results

Bob Barr - Ralph Nader - Fritz Mondale - algore - John Kerry-Edwards - Brack Hussein Obama bin Biden Junior!

The dustbin of history

The first half is over and your ace quarterback is injured and sitting on the bench and you are behind 8 points and the ref has big money on Obomba U.

Instant Replay is not going to win the Super Bowl in the last 2 minutes of the 4th quarter if you don’t make the playoffs tonight -

What play can you call to win?

The clock is ticking down to 55 seconds.....

Yet, when Carter won the general election, we, as a nation, got Reagan after Carter managed to spend four years highlighting everything that is wrong with liberalism.

By that measure, those on the left could hail that we, as a nation, got clinton, after President Reagan and President GHW Bush managed to spend twelve years highlighting everything that is wrong with republicans.

And the response to that would be that we, as a nation, got President GW Bush after clinton managed to spend 8 years highlighting everything that was wrong with liberalism.

I'm not ready for four to eight years of obama just so we as a nation are shocked into voting for a conservative. I'd prefer four to eight years of mccain and Palin and during that time working to highlight and promote conservatism so that in 2012 or 2016 we, as a nation, finally realize how much better we can be by voting for a true conservative. I realize that is an uphill climb, but I'll refer back to your comment about God working miracles.

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