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To: rikkir

"If we declare Islam a criminal enterprise aren't we severely damaging the 1st amendment? After all it is a recognized religion. I don't buy the whole TROP crap, but I do have friends from Iran, and Lebanon who are practicing Muslims, and I could no more tell them their religion is banned from the US than I could a Baptist, or Catholic. Heck I was raised a Methodist, and I feel with the liberal stance they have taken on almost every issue over the last 60 years, they might be as much of threat as the Muslims. Of course I am speaking from a sedition standpoint, obviously I don't think we're going to see any Methodists strapping bombs to their chest and blowing up the local mall, but they have been staunchly anti-everything Conservative, including the WOT and leading their members with that philosophy."

You are wrestling with some real problems. Here is my take. Each of our freedoms can be potentially limited: especially if the full continuation of that freedom threatens the very existence of our society.

For example, during the Civil War, Lincoln suspended the writ of habeas corpus (it means "show me the body" in Latin but don't ask me what the heck its significance is. The point is, this is an important freedom but Lincoln suspended it to prosecute the civil war and help preserve the Union. (I realize there are some on this web site who disagree with that goal, but that is a separate argument, in my view.)

Bush is partially suspended some freedoms in the war on terror.

So, the bottom line is, yes, we can ban Islam from the US if it is the only way to preserve a society worth living in.

Let me tell you a rather grisly story. Indonesia used to have about 3 million Chinese people living in it. Outside of China (in Asia), Chinese people tend to be very active and dominant: very successful in business and very influential. This has been going on for centuries. Some call the Chinese the Jews of Asia (I'm Jewish, so I'm allowed to say it).

At a certain point in time (this was maybe a couple of decades or so ago), the Indonesians realized that these Chinese were participating in a massive communist subversion attempt being orchestrated by the Chinese government for the purpose of having a communist government take over Indonesia. Hysteria swept Indonesia, they turned on the Chinese, and basically killed them all.

I'm not saying what they did was right. But the fact is, Indonesians have a reasonably good society today, something they probably would not have if they were spending all their time battling a powerful, devious, fairly largeif Chinese minority backed by the Chinese government.

The point is, societies have a right to defend themselves from attacks on their basic existence. Another good example is Russia at the time of the revolution. The first revolution was by Democratic Socialists, full of positive ideals. They tried to set up a democratic government respecting everybody's rights, but they were weak. After a while, they fell to the Communists. It seems like it would've been better if they were less idealistic, maybe trampling on some individual rights on occasion, but ruled effectively enough to prevent the Communists from taking over.

I am not saying that things have reached the point where we should ban Islam in United States. I do believe, however, that we should ban any further Islamic immigration at this time.

Realistically, we have already responded to some extent to the Islamic threat in United States. Mosques in the United States are being monitored by the federal government in various, pretty intense ways. CAIR, a pro-terrorist group of Islamic Americans, is fighting against this, with the help of the ACLU and the rest of the Hard Left, but so far they have failed.

What strikes me particularly about this article is the Black Muslim group in particular. Here, our hands may be tied, because any extraordinary action against them would be labeled as racist. I am not sure that a Republican administration would be able to weather that storm. Of course, under a Democratic administration that problem would not exist: presumably all of the internal monitoring of Muslims will be pretty much suspended if Hillary wins. Then we will simply have to weather the consequences (terrorism) as best we can.


14 posted on 03/05/2006 9:44:08 AM PST by strategofr (Hillary stole 1000+ secret FBI files on DC movers & shakers, Hillary's Secret War, Poe, p. xiv)
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To: strategofr
True under Liberal leadership (ain't that an oxymoron) we would turn a blind eye to all, and let the chips (and bodies) fall where they may.
I understand the reasons that you give, and they make perfect sense, I guess I am beginning to understand how the Libertarians feel about the Patriot Act. I see a dangerous precedent, and a very "slippery slope". Things in DC are seldom "undone".
I also don't know if I would have the heart, guts, fortitude, call it what you will to defend an action that would take away one of the essential rights of a couple of my closest friends. It, to say the least, would be a very tough pill to swallow.
Thank you for visiting the Rikkir cliche festival.
17 posted on 03/05/2006 9:59:56 AM PST by rikkir (My goal this year: Push a Moonbat over the edge by increasing our majorities!!)
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