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1 posted on 11/28/2004 5:07:38 PM PST by james beam
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To: james beam

Now some cultures qualify as civilizations by rising above these animal instinct with their respect for human life and a passion for progress; while others like Islam merely practice these animals instincts in an organized manner, falling far short of the word Civilization, and rendering it even baser than barbarism, because of the organized manner in which this savagery is practiced. Islam seems to be barbarism practiced by choice rather than by default as a result of ignorance.

Islam made it possible for the West to have a civilization worth speaking of. Indeed the West was in the Dark Ages before Islam shed light on the miserable existence of the West and its barbarous behavior. Even this was short-lived. The Western Church proceeded to persecute the common people in barbaric fashion.

Is that what you call civilization? The Crusades and the Inquisition?

Islam requires no form of human sacrifice, and organized savagery is what war is about. Dead Iraqi children and women testify to that.

James says, "A religion that stones people to death, chops their limbs off, lets men keep captured men and women as slaves and concubines, punishes every form of happiness and the exercise of free speech and free choice with death; would remind one of a criminal syndicate, but it can never be considered a religion of God."

I agree. Now look at the history of Christianity and know that it is not a religion of God!

James goes on to say, "I have never come across an enlightened and honest Muslim in my entire life.

I find that statement hard to believe. But given that, I can see why James has the view of Islam that he does!

Islam continues to be a positive force for change in the world. Most Muslims do not belong to fundamentalist groups which are involved in the things that James is speaking of. The majority of Muslims are involved in changing the world they live and themselves in a positive fashion. Turmoil, corruption, in-efficiencies, cruelties and human rights abuses exist right here in this country. Does that make us savages also? Of course!

One can say Christian culture and practices are simply incompatible with human civilization. Just look at the history of one Christian institution - The Vatican. Look at the history of the Papacy and the killing committed by Christians done through the ages and tell me this is not barbaric. This continues right up to slavery in this country and today to the killing going on in Iraq and Afghanistan.

If the world is threatened by Islam today, it has been threatened by Christianity for millenia.

Christian nations threatens to destabilize the entire world with their military might and interventionist activities.

Was nuking Hiroshima and Nagasaki judicious? Innocent women and children killed for the sake of war. Where is the wisdom in that?

The Islamic world is already contained with sanctions and technology transfer restrictions where ever these can be applied. This will not stop their progress in any area however. On the one hand, Muslims are barbaric. On the other hand, they have advanced technology. It sounds like someone is upset with the progress the Islamic world has made to date and its new-found wealth. Is that why you hate them?

The Islamic world will never be contained. You had better get used to that. Africa will soon be an Islamic continent as well. And to think Christian missionaries used to say that they would convert Africa to Christianity in a few years! Comical indeed.

Europe will soon be a majority Muslim continent also, given the flow of immigration and high birth rates of Muslims there. Yes, the end of the West is in sight.

The Muslims dont pit the great powers against each other. They have those who support them and those who dont. Its that simple. The "greate powers" that support the Muslims are in a minority for sure. A Christian power alliance against Muslims will not spell victory for Christianity. It will guarantee a death blow to the Christian power allaince. Future generations would see the futility of such vain desires.

Christians came to this country and lied to the Native Americans about everything and stole their land from them. Now Christians are talking about Muslims being liars, crooks and bullies? Hypocritical. The "great powers" became great on the back of others, be they American Indians, African slaves, or others.

The seeds of their destruction were sown long ago by their savage treatment of others. It seems they want us to forget what they have done and go along with their "program." Or should I say "pogrom."

Western civilization represents the lowest in human aspirations. Indeed, racism and religious persecution still abound here in this society. Poisonous ideas of others are rampant as can be seen by the statements made by many. This society still has a long way to go before it can be said to practice its values that it professes.

Indeed, the use of slavery in empire building did evolve out of Greece and Rome. True enough. It is also evident that the West evolved dependent on this labor force, along with the use of lies, and military force. This was done by Christian Popes during the Crusades and the Inquisition. A study of European history attests to that.

Christian missionaries enslaved several Native Americans in this country also. This was done in the name of Christianity. As well as torture and killing.
Western civilization is about individual freedoms, greater personal responsibility and respect for the rights of others. The question is whose individual freedoms? Whose personal responsibility? Respect for the rights of whom? Christianity is also about those same principles. Yes. The same questions can be asked of Christianity as well. The answers require honesty.

Indeed the similarities between Western civilization and the Christian faith are no coincidence: the marriage between Greco-Roman values of empire-building based on slavery.

Does this marriage mean that today's Christians and Liberals both share the same core values? Let's hope not. At least not in the historical Christian sense.

If Christ were to be born again, rest assured he would despise Christians even more than Muslims for their wanton disregard for human life manifested in the barbaric legacies of the Crusades, the Inquisition and the trans-Atlantic slave trade. As well as the Bosnian genocide and the killing of women and children in Iraq and Afghanistan. And the nuking of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. And on and on. Where will it end?



2 posted on 04/19/2005 2:39:43 PM PDT by ihashim
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