"TOM McSELFISH = Gov. BustaMENCHA"

9/14/2003 | ALOHA RONNIE Guyer

[ALOHA RONNIE]

NEVER FORGET

.."TOM McSELFISH =

...Gov. BustaMENCHA"

........was THE Sign to behold at this weekend's California Republican Convention held in Playa Del Rey next to the Los Angeles International Airport. So I did.

...No Convention Endorsement came for California Governor, but a posted Convention Straw Poll showed ARNOLD with nearly ..80%.. of the votes verses a little over ..18%.. for TOM McCLINTOCK.

...No one backed down this weekend, though it was hoped one Candidate for California Governor would, with Recall Election Financier Congressman ISSA watching it all unfold right before his very eyes.

Signed:.."ALOHA RONNIE" Guyer / Republican Convention Witness

NEVER FORGET

[Maelstrom]

Ah...but you see Son...

Since the 1960's, conservatives have always compromised with the Republican party and the Republican party has never returned the favor.

We've done it...you guys haven't...and it's your turn. To be perfectly fair, it's your turn to compromise for the next 45 years so we're on even footing again. Let's just try this one time, shall we?

[SONbrad]

Goldwater was a comnpromise?
Reagan was a compromise?

Incidentally...I voted for Reagan and would have a 3rd time if I could have.... but he was not a compromise.

It most assuredly has NOT been a one-sided compromise since the 1960s. Grow up a bit...please!

It is really sad to see you behaving like a 3-year old who can't get their own way. Please...go home until you can play well with others.

[ohioWfan]

As I said, you are obviously a man of conviction, but God also asks us to be humble (that is NOT a specious argument, nor is the fact that God expects us to THINK), and to be aware of our own finite minds, and our worthlessness before a Holy God..

You are free to draw the conclusions you draw from your own convictions, but you also need to be very careful about your judgements against others WHO SHARE THE SAME CONVICTIONS, and draw different conclusions. You do not know their hearts, nor what God is instructing them to do, as much as you may think you do.

In addition, there are a whole host of Scripture verses requiring us to be encouragers, to love others, to be a sweet fragrance of the love of Christ, and many others that YOU are choosing to ignore as you deal with others in your moral indignation.

I believe the Bible calls that sin.

Watch for the log in your own eye before condemning your neighbor's speck. (And I will do the same).

[ohioWfan]

I'm talking with the grownups Maelstrom. Do you mind?

[exmarine]

he only wrote the federalist Papers"

Here you go attacking me again instead of the issues. What are you - a pedant? By "ONLY wrote" I meant "merely wrote" - get it now? I know what I meant-I can't help it if your reading comprehension is substandard. By the way, I have a BA in history (summa cum laude). Want to insult that now?

Your attitude that "good" Christians should only vote for Tom is disgusting. Pathetic even...and insulting to Christians. Who makes YOU the person to decide how all Christians should vote? And please don't tell me the Bible or the little voices in your head!

I don't care what you think of my attitude. Argue with the points made. If you don't want to follow the bible, DON'T!!! Follow yourself! That's between you and God. Don't blame me for your compromises - own them for what they are.

I have been a Christian for much longer than you and I know what it is to be a Christian.

Really? I didn't know time had anything to do with quality when it comes to faith. Claiming to be a Christian and acting like one are two different things.

Christians do not JUDGE the way you judge all those who disagree with you. They do not paint other Christians the way that you do. Christians are inclusive and accepting and forgiving people. They do not "take their ball and go home" when they don't get everything their way.

Show me in the bible where it says we should not judge actions, or that Christians should be "inclusive" (barf!) The Truth is decidely EXCLUSIVE. Take your political correctness to someone who buys it. What is the authority for the Christian life? The depraved culture, the Republican Party platform perhaps? or the bible? WHICH?

Furthermore, does forgive mean to condone? If the shoe fits, you wear it. I don't paint people, I paint BAD actions, and voting for a reprobate is a BAD ACTION, and I have made a sound case that it is. I haven't yet seen one good argument from any of you that supports voting for a man like Arnold.

Like it or not, the Apostle Paul who instructs us to admonish and teach. When we see each other sin, are we to just do nothing? Or should we try to restore the sinning brother. I believe moral compromise is a sin and I believe scripture backs me up. What do you have to back you up other than your own flawed human reasoning? Give me a scripture that justifies voting for a reprobate. I can give you several that go against it!

Please grow up and stop giving Christians such a bad name. It is so easy to hide behind the bible when you don't get your own way.

Another personal attack. What a hypocrite.

[Maelstrom]

Perhaps the idea is too complex for you. Let me try smaller words:

When Republicans enact liberal policies, conservatives have learned that there is no difference between voting Republican or Democrat. Both are going to enact liberal policies.

Worse, by voting for a Republican who enacts liberal policies, they've been betrayed and are further attacked with the claim, "Well, if you didn't want liberal policies why did you vote for the liberal Republican?" That claim is correct. If you do not want liberal policies, you cannot vote for a liberal whether Republican or Democrat.

It cannot then be the conservatives' fault when Republicans lose elections, because they first abandoned the conservatives. You cannot browbeat, insult, chastize or bemoan certain destruction due to liberal policies enacted by a Democrat in order to gain conservative votes when it's known that your liberal Republican is going to give you more liberal policies.

[ohioWfan]

Well, let me check that out. I can't right now since I'm headed off to work, but as much as I hate even LOOKING at that place again, I'll go back and check for you.

I might have been mistaken about the name.......but I don't think so.

[Maelstrom]

Liberal republicans did not vote for Goldwater.

Reagan was in fact a compromise.

Conservative compromised, liberal republicans did not.

Your personal attacks are a reflection of the weakness of your argument.

[Maelstrom]

Well, when you have a valid point, the argument is still available for addressing.

It's a shame you have nothing to bring to the table but senseless personal attacks.

[exmarine]

You are free to draw the conclusions you draw from your own convictions, but you also need to be very careful about your judgements against others WHO SHARE THE SAME CONVICTIONS, and draw different conclusions. You do not know their hearts, nor what God is instructing them to do, as much as you may think you do.

There is very little conviction to be found in compromise.

In addition, there are a whole host of Scripture verses requiring us to be encouragers, to love others, to be a sweet fragrance of the love of Christ, and many others that YOU are choosing to ignore as you deal with others in your moral indignation.

If I said anything that was untrue, then address it. Otherwise, own the truth. I have my own way of encouraging. The truth is sometimes forceful and offensive. If you read that as unencouraging or unloving, that is your problem. I don't coddle people. People don't need coddling - they need a wake up call.

You never did address the issue of demolition of the family via a pro-gay rights Arnold. It seems you have more important priorities than the family - such as your vague notions of possible future political benefits.

[Maelstrom]

Can you verify this argument for me?

Arnold supporters need to explain why they would not support Clinton if he ran as Republican given the reasons they support Schwartzenegger.

[ohioWfan]

Oh MAN! I'm sorry!

I just held my nose and checked out that rancid place, and it was bunnyRABBIT who was making fun of me!

I'm SO SORRY!! Please forgive me for even asking without checking it out first!

I'll see if I can have that post deleted.

[SONbrad]

Read back through your posts exmarine (which I do NOT believe you are).

Yuo have consistently attacked others. I merely pointed out that you posted something that was NOT true.

"He wrote the Federalist papers".

It can only mean ONE thing. Perhaps your writing is not up to par.

By the way....the Bible is filled with passages about not judging others. But others have already pointed out that you conveniently ignore those passages that you do not like.

You have made ZERO arguements other than your very suspect bible-thumping which is really quite tiresome.

I also pointed out that I have been a Christian longer than you because you insisted in pointing out in multiple posts that you were a "Christian since 1995..." as if that made everything you said "gospel".

[ohioWfan]

I have NO higher priority than my family, other than God, and His Son, Jesus Christ.

To insinutate.....no to accuse me...... of anything else is more of your 'spiritual'/sinful arrogance.

And I've had enough.

[SONbrad]

Total weak Maelstrom. Reagan was NOT a compromise and you know it. He was the conservative choice.

And Goldwater got the nomination because of the Republican party, which included Liberals and Moderates, selcting him. The fact was he was too conservative to get any Democratic votes.

Get real.

[ohioWfan]

Admin moderator, can you please delete this post.

It was made in error, and I would like it removed.

Thank you.

[Maelstrom]

Simon also got the nomination...like Goldwater...he did so *in spite* of liberals and moderates.

Republicans don't need Democratic votes. They only need Republican votes.

Goldwater didn't get liberal and moderate Republican votes.

Moreover, Reagan wasn't the most conservative candidate on the ballot in the Republican primary.

I don't think you're old enough to remember this stuff. I think you have to look it up, am I correct?

[BunnySlippers]

Thanks. I appreciate the offer. :)

[Hillary's Lovely Legs]

Here's my question.

Are McClintock supporters so stupid that they cannot spell Arnold or Schwarzenegger correctly. I am always shocked to see it spelled correctly. Usually it's (R)nold, Ahhhnold, Schwarzenazi, Schwarzenkennedy.. along with a thousand other spellings.

I guess it's just a special kind of stupid that I don't understand.

[Sabertooth]

It is my firm belief that it was NOT right for Christians to vote for Perot, knowing that Clinton was debauched, and knowingly risk what actually happened.......the election of the worst man to ever become President.

I will always believe that......and history backs me up.

Look, I agree with you. Clinton is the primary reason I became a Republican. I understand loyalty, I've voted for every GOP nominee, regardless of how good or lousy they were, in every election since joining the party.

However, not all voters are like you or me. That's just a fact, and it's not going to change. The solution to avoiding future Clintons is for our politicians to take no votes for granted.

However much we might like a politician, if they lose touch with the electorate, they will lose elections. Voter disaffection is a hazard of the trade. When a favored politician begins to alienate the voters, our energies ought to be directed at that politician, and getting him to change whatever it is he or she is doing that is costing votes, and possibly elections.